Quickly create instrument and device

7 posts / 0 new
Last post
tom11's picture
tom11
Offline
Last seen 2 days 2 hours ago

Quickly create instrument and device

It would save a lot of time if there would be a new menu entry in the Instrument main menu labeled like "new from device", and this would populate the list of Vst plugins.

When selecting a plugin a new instrument is added which has assigned the selected plugin, which is loaded and added to the arrangement rack. And the "Extract device definition" should be called automatically, if it is unknown, as you have to call it anyway.

Best the instrument caption should contain the name of the plugin by default, at least better than just leaving it blank.

Notice that this is a standard functionality in other software like Ableton.

If  needed, the instrument category etc can be adjusted afterwards.

 

 

andre's picture
andre
Online
Last seen 1 hour 42 min ago

Thanks for the suggestion. You probably mean "new from plug-in"?

Actually the wizard is supposed to do exactly that. You would add an instrument first, then click on the magic wand icon. I admit this could be made a single step.

The task of extracting a DD from a plug-in is a very interactive and manual process that could not usefully be automated. There is no reliable way to guess sound properties. Also, only some 20% or so of all plug-ins do support extraction.

But full extraction isn't needed anyway. The wizard already goes through the 3 steps of creating or selecting a DD and setting the properties of only the single sound you need for the instrument. 

The wizard also offers convenience in that it lets you select from the presets you already created. I for one have a preset for every synth, which makes setting up an instrument a few clicks only. 

It is pretty much as simple as it can get, given the requirement that setting a category and ranges is mandatory for an instrument to do its work (i.e. you can't do that only "if needed"). Of course, creating a new track in a DAW is still easier, because it merely needs to know a plugin and nothing else.

Lytz1's picture
Lytz1
Offline
Last seen 1 day 1 min ago

Andre, I admit the "Wizard is kinda "it is idiot-proof, but honestly: You should critically think about this:

It would save a lot of time if...(xyz)

All in all we got a lot of dumped down stuff for the novice or beginner ("Click-Board", "Wizard") in the last alterations of SF

but for others that are already "quite there" working with SF and are also used to the execution speed of other apps, all these extra steps and click-mile menus are... well, let's say a bit "cumbersome" and certainly kind of frustrating to work with. Because you run into these "blockers" all the time.

 Elimination of redundant steps or consolidation/streamlining of others would go a long way with stuff that is called up every time a new track is added. 

"Extract device definition" should be called automatically, if it is unknown, as you have to call it anyway.

Well Tom, honestly I think this doesn't make too much sense. A lot (!) of plugins can't hadle extractions.

So you have an automated step that doesn't work most of the time. Also every user should get used to use presets, templates (!)

and already created definitions anyways 'cause that will save everybody a lot of time on the long run.  

(And don't forget that a lot of us also use external stuff and 3rd party apps as well... So this step would be *again* an extra step

that needs to be reversed every time.) Not sure if my thoughprocess is 100% right here, but I think it is?

 

Best,

tL.

 

 

tom11's picture
tom11
Offline
Last seen 2 days 2 hours ago

@Andre: Yes I meant "new from plug-in". Correct me but it seems to me that the wizard is only for adding devices/plugins to the Global rack ? I try to avoid using the global rack because it's too "unsafe", ie. when you delete a device from global rack or only change the preset, then all arrangements using this sound are affected.

But even if you could use the wizard for the arrangment rack: It's not done by clicking on the "magic wand icon": You need to click  through several panes with lot's of settings.

The only way I found to add  new rack module with plugin to an arrangement is to switch to the "Sounds" tab, press the "+" button and the "Load plugin" button. But that's not enough, because then it shows (for most of my plugins) red colored "Unknown device", and therefore I can't select this sound for the instrument: In the drop down list under "Arrangement rack"  eg. "Engine 15"  is listed, but greyed out and not selectable. This means  I always need to do "Extract from plugin" from the module in the Sounds tab, and only then I'm able to select this sound.

@Lytz1: "Extract from plugin" results in something similar to "No information for sounds or presets" for most of my plugins too, but nevertheless (as explained above) you need to do this procedure (which lasts several seconds !).

@Andre "

given the requirement that setting a category and ranges is mandatory for an instrument to do its work

"

No, it is not a requirement for me in the first step. Ranges are mostly sufficient, and if not, I adjust them later them when needed (when I notice that dragging a figure up does not increase the pitch). Regarding "category": I just want a sound that I know and not to think about which category it belongs to. Ther might be subtle changes in interpretation of figures but again, I might change that later if it is not satisfiying.

Lytz1's picture
Lytz1
Offline
Last seen 1 day 1 min ago

@Lytz1: "Extract from plugin" results in something similar to "No information for sounds or presets" for most of my plugins too, but nevertheless (as explained above) you need to do this procedure (which lasts several seconds !).

Yeah, well... But you only have to do this *once* per plugin ever...? So what's the point making this default for every new added plugin every single time?

EDIT: And no, you are not forced to use "extract" at all if you don't want to...

andre's picture
andre
Online
Last seen 1 hour 42 min ago

The wizard is for setting up any instrument, whether global, sketch or arrangement. In an arrangement, you would double-click in the slack space under the last instrument to create a new one and then click on the magic wand icon and follow the wizard.

For some simplification, I can imagine firing up the wizard immediately after adding a new instrument (aka "track"). This is what Logic X does.

The whole point of the wizard is to avoid the need for visiting the "Sounds" tab altogether, unless you want to edit device details manually, add insert effects, etc. 

Extraction is really only a convenience option.

I just want a sound that I know and not to think about which category it belongs to.

Me too, but largely depends on style. Since electronic music doesn't involve real instruments, figuring out what possible instrument a sound might resemble is truly cumbersome. Therefore, think less of category and more of role. For example, the bass categories ensure an appropriate pitch range and select a sensible default interpretation right from the start.

That said, there is a certain conflict of interest between workflows and terminology used by EDM vs. songwriting and orchestral. Whether it's dealing with sounds, bottom-up vs. top-down workflow, the notion of what "melody" is, "chords" or "bass", naming conventions, complexity, goals, etc. A DAW can ignore all this. Synfire somehow needs to find a common denominator.

tom11's picture
tom11
Offline
Last seen 2 days 2 hours ago

Ah, ok...I was just irritated because the caption next to the magic wand icon always showed "Global rack"...Add one by clicking in space is a good hint, and then when clicking the magic wand button it get indeed added to the arrangment rack. Fine!

The other way via the "sounds tab" and "+" is more complicated, I'll not use it anymore for plugins

Log in or register to post comments

Scholarly Lite is a free theme, contributed to the Drupal Community by More than Themes.