Synfire saved a .coglib file inside the app package

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RobertoD's picture
RobertoD
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Synfire saved a .coglib file inside the app package

I can't figure how it happened, but this is the second time that Synfire saves a Library file, along with its backup folder, inside the application package (see the screenshots).

Is this ok?

_Roberto

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I wonder if this could be related to the crashes you are seeing when saving files as you seem to experience more than I do when working on the mac? Are you on high sereira  and do you have the new file system installed? Just trying to think of things that might be related to your issues, not that I can do anything about them, but it might spark an idea in Andre's head?

RobertoD's picture
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I think that the Lib file into the Synfire package and the sistematic crashing when I perform a Cmd-S are not related, blacksun. Yes, I have High Sierra installed, but crashes occurred with Sierra too. On the other hand, as I wrote a few days ago, on the old 2006 iMac of my father, Synfire runs flawlessly.

What is your Mac equipment?

iMac Retina 27” Late 2015, Logic Pro, StudioOne, Synfire, Notion, NI Komplete, Heavyocity, Altiverb, a mate (Ines) and two cats (Oliva&Spritz)

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To be honest I'm experiencing a number of issues only with Synfire. I use several music apps almost daily: Logic, Finale, StudioOne, Notion, Kontakt and so on, but with them I have not the issues I have with Synfire. Maybe the code is somewhat "aged"? I'm not a programmer, I can only tell the facts. It's a 700+ € package...

iMac Retina 27” Late 2015, Logic Pro, StudioOne, Synfire, Notion, NI Komplete, Heavyocity, Altiverb, a mate (Ines) and two cats (Oliva&Spritz)

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We all know that Synfire is on the rather pricy side of things and that it's far from bug-free... but in my personal experience Andre is one of the most responsive developers when it comes to support and service.

Synfire is a very complex piece of software. In the past I had some bugs to report, ranging from nasty to real show-stoppers, but every issue I told Andre about, was remedied in appropriate time so far.

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I am absolutely not moving a personal or moral criticism to the developer. I'm just reporting anomalies in a package priced 779 euros. That's it.

iMac Retina 27” Late 2015, Logic Pro, StudioOne, Synfire, Notion, NI Komplete, Heavyocity, Altiverb, a mate (Ines) and two cats (Oliva&Spritz)

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(besides, and I have already written it, I like a lot Synfire and I would purchase it again...)

iMac Retina 27” Late 2015, Logic Pro, StudioOne, Synfire, Notion, NI Komplete, Heavyocity, Altiverb, a mate (Ines) and two cats (Oliva&Spritz)

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I've been using Synfire on a macbook pro (mid 2010 model) for several years until Feb 2016 when I upgraded to an iMac which is still running El Capitan MacOS (I missed the deadline to upgrade to Sierra and won't touch High Sierra for a while yet due to possible software and hardware compatibility issues). I havent been using Synfire much recently due to needing to earn a living, but have never experienced the level of instability you are experiencing. As HiEnergy mentioned, a few critical bugs crept in at times, normally with a big step change release, but Andre has been pretty good at stamping them out quickly.

On a Mac, it is possible to open applications as a file system, browse around and update the files in there, the app is like an archive file containing many files and folders.

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I would not have given an erroneous impression: Synfire is stable, also in High Sierra. The only big issue is saving files using native MacOS dialog boxes: I had to disable them in the Preferences. The rest does not give excessive worries: some bugs here and there, but nothing irreparable. File saving, instead, seems a structural problem.

_Roberto

iMac Retina 27” Late 2015, Logic Pro, StudioOne, Synfire, Notion, NI Komplete, Heavyocity, Altiverb, a mate (Ines) and two cats (Oliva&Spritz)

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Of course, saving any file inside the application package is not ok. I wonder how this would even happen in the first place. The default folder to save files is ~/Documents/Synfire Pro and has always been (also on Windows). The file dialog should present that as the default choice, unless you navigate it to somewhere else. Synfire also remembers the folder you last saved to (or opened from) per each type of file. Nowhere in the Synfire code is any mention of the application bundle being used as a folder for files. If that were the case, it would happen on every Mac (and on Windows too, btw).

I'd guess this is a bug introduced with High Sierra. Possibly, for whatever reason, the file dialog jumps to the application bundle. You can easily verify the target folder by expanding the browser view on the file dialog window. I'd not be surprised if this goes away with a 10.13.1 update.

We test on MacBook Air (10.12 and 10.13) and a 12-Core Mac Pro (both natively and in virtual machines from 10.11 to 10.13). If issues are reported, we go back until 10.7, if necessary. We haven't yet seen this crash. I suspect it may be hardware dependent. Some Apple graphics framework happens to release a window twice (which is what crashes the app) under very rare circumstances (Interestingly, the window is not even related to the file dialog).

Unfortunately, as of today, there is only the workaround to disable native file dialogs on that hardware. Believe me, I'm not happy with that.

If there are more users getting this crash, we can collect more evidence and hopefully reproduce it, so it can be fixed.

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I'm a stubborn man, Andre, and I'm downloading El Capitan, the oldest operating system supported by my iMac. I'll try to install it on a virtual machine in Parallels 13: let's see how Synfire behaves there.

iMac Retina 27” Late 2015, Logic Pro, StudioOne, Synfire, Notion, NI Komplete, Heavyocity, Altiverb, a mate (Ines) and two cats (Oliva&Spritz)

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Well.
Finally I succeeded in installing El Capitan + Synfire Pro 1.8.3b9 in Parallels 13 (it has been a little cumbersome...)
After half an hour of testing, saving and resaving files in the virtual machine, no crashes occurred.
It should definitely be an issue related to Sierra/High Sierra (+ Late 2015 iMac?).
Furthermore, in High Sierra, Synfire UI sometimes freezes (but the app won't collapse) even using the built-in dialogs, and there is no way of unfreezing it, netiher pressing Esc.
Andre, I think Cognitone should face the issue, otherwise spreading this amazing app could become a problem on the newest machines.

All the best,
_Roberto

 

iMac Retina 27” Late 2015, Logic Pro, StudioOne, Synfire, Notion, NI Komplete, Heavyocity, Altiverb, a mate (Ines) and two cats (Oliva&Spritz)

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On the other hand, VSL released a mandatory “High Sierra Compatibility Layer”. The latest MacOS seems a naughty guy... ;-)

iMac Retina 27” Late 2015, Logic Pro, StudioOne, Synfire, Notion, NI Komplete, Heavyocity, Altiverb, a mate (Ines) and two cats (Oliva&Spritz)

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Thanks for sharing the outcome of your experiments.

We will soon upgrade our build machines to the latest macOS, Xcode and tool chain. Sometimes issues like this go away, simply by rebuilding the same application with newer tools.

Needless to say, I am mad at Apple for pushing (forcing) developers every year to the supposedly latest and greatest, but totally unfinished software. Upgrading a developer Mac can take up to a week of uncertainty, until everything works again.

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I’ll patiently wait, I have time and it’s worth. In the meanwhile there is lot of practice to do with Synfire. Save or not save, doesn’t matter right now: world will miss my masterpieces. Amen.

iMac Retina 27” Late 2015, Logic Pro, StudioOne, Synfire, Notion, NI Komplete, Heavyocity, Altiverb, a mate (Ines) and two cats (Oliva&Spritz)

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If you save a new file immediately (while it's still empty), you can afterwards save your progress with Command-S without a file dialog opening.

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Andre, might be teaching my grandmother to suck eggs....

It is possible to download the latest xcode (using a direct link not via the store), open it as an archive then copy out the latest libraries and insert them into your current version of xcode (opened at an archive). You can then build apps with the latest SDK even though your xcode isnt the latest. I had to do that to develop ios 10 apps under el capitan, I'm guessing the same would also work for MacOS. You obviously do not gain any benefit of any optimisations provided by the latest xcode or any other features that arent in your version of xcode, it is just an sdk upgrade.

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I think I understand the hard life of an Apple developer, Andre. I still have in mind the release of the very first version of OSX, Cheetah, an incomplete beta sold for 129,00 euros... :-)

iMac Retina 27” Late 2015, Logic Pro, StudioOne, Synfire, Notion, NI Komplete, Heavyocity, Altiverb, a mate (Ines) and two cats (Oliva&Spritz)

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We do have the latest SDK around already. Will try that. Thanks for the hint.

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