Differences between midi import

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janamdo's picture
janamdo
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Last seen 3 days 16 hours ago

Differences between midi import

When i import a midi in the arrangement screen or i import a midi in the library for making out there a pool, there is a difference in the 2 midi's.


The arrangment midi and the master midi seems to be different when i listening to them?
The arrangement midi sounds good , but the master midi sounds not as good as the arrangement midi- too much loss of character of the midi
Should the master midi sounds similar as the arrangement midi ..
  


Has someone similar experiencies with this ?

janamdo's picture
janamdo
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Last seen 3 days 16 hours ago

SOLVED: it seems that the parameter "sustain" is not imported in the library !
I copied the sustain parameter from the arrangement view into the parameter slot of the pool editor and now the midi is ok.
Even when the option "Import Controller" is on ( tickboxed) ..the midi file has no sustain parameter anymore imported in the pool editor ?
It sounds now the same : midi import in arrangement view and import midi in Library..as aspected.
Is this a bug ?

petearch's picture
petearch
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Last seen 2 days 2 hours ago

I tried this by importing a phrase (with sustain) to an arrangement, and the same phrase to a library.  I agree the sustain parameter was not imported to the library.

In addition, although I applied the same recognition parameters to both imports, the notes sounded slightly different in the library.  Further investigation revealed that the figure was about 3 steps higher in the library version and didn't sound quite right.

So perhaps there are two bugs in the library import?

Pete

andre's picture
andre
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Last seen 8 hours 45 min ago

Sustain should be imported. I will check that and fix it.

petearch's picture
petearch
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Last seen 2 days 2 hours ago

What about the other issue, where the figures were different?  I'll try to post an example tomorrow morning if I get the chance.

Pete

petearch's picture
petearch
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Last seen 2 days 2 hours ago

Ok, I couldn't reproduce it of course!

But what I did find was that after importing a phrase, and then afterwards re-doing the Figure Recognition with exactly the same settings used on the import, the figure pattern is different.  I guess that must be what I did above when I thought there was a difference between library and arrangement import.

Why is the figure recognition different after import?

I've attached a gif to explain it better.  It shows a phrase imported, then duplicated.  The same recognition setting is used on the duplicate, but the result is different.

Pete

juergen's picture
juergen
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Last seen 7 months 2 days ago

Quite strange. It's not strange that you get different results at the two figure recognitions. But it is strange that you don't get a harmony parameter after the import, although you have checked the "Recognize keys, chords and scales" checkbox. Since (for whatever reason) you don't get the harmony parameter at the import (the Harmony LED is still dark green) the second figure recognition produces different results.

At a figure recognition that you start from the arrangement window, the harmony parameter isn't calculated new, but instead the figures are calculated based on the harmony parameter that already is there. 

So, the real question is: Why don't you get the harmony parameter at the import. And: Why don't you have a "Import Track" checkbox (below the label "Your selection:") as it appears in my MIDI import window. Very strange.

 

janamdo's picture
janamdo
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Last seen 3 days 16 hours ago

indeed, if it working correct ..? , then it could be a method to get variations of phrases ?

juergen's picture
juergen
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Last seen 7 months 2 days ago

indeed, if it working correct ..? , then it could be a method to get variations of phrases ?

Yes, figure recognitions with different harmony parameters give different results and you can use that behaviour to produce variations of the figure.

 

andre's picture
andre
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Last seen 8 hours 45 min ago

Importing a single track into an existing arrangement does not import Harmony, of course. This would corrupt your composition. When running the figure recognition again inside the arrangement, a different Harmony (that of the arrangement) is used as a guide. That's why you get different results.

juergen's picture
juergen
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Last seen 7 months 2 days ago

Ah, sure, petearch has used the single track import (I've never used that import mode before). Of course that explains everything.

 

 

petearch's picture
petearch
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Last seen 2 days 2 hours ago

But this was imported into a new arrangement that had no harmony parameter, so I still don't understand why the result is different.

Additionally, are we saying that every time we change the harmony, we have to do another figure recognition?  I thought the figure was interpreted independently of harmony so that 'everything just fits'?

Pete

juergen's picture
juergen
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Last seen 7 months 2 days ago

You have used the command for a single track input into an existing arrangement. This makes the difference. If you use the regular command for a MIDI import (which creates a new arrangement) then Harmony is imported.

No, of course you don't need to do a new recogition after a change of Harmony. But if you do a recognition from within the arrangement, the Harmony should correspond with the Take, since the original harmonic context of the Take is not calculated new in this case.

If Harmony does not correspond with the Take at the figure recognition, the resulting Figure will still work with different harmonic contexts and it will still sound harmonic "correct", but the difference to the original Take will probably be larger.

petearch's picture
petearch
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Last seen 2 days 2 hours ago

So if I understand correctly, the first recognition used the notes from the take to determine the harmony and write the figures.  The second recognition simply used the 'C' chord in the arrangement to write the figures.

What I didn't realise until now is that the harmony (chords) affect the figure recognition.

It makes me wonder if sometimes it's worth doing another recognition inside an arrangement after copying a phrase from the library, or even after changing the chords in the arrangement.

But that doesn't make a lot of sense, since the phrase is probably used eleswhere in the arrangement with different chords anyway.

I thought I was maybe halfway up Everest, but I think I've slipped a bit!

Pete

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