Why is broomstickbass Vsti not working- using recording midi out in Synfire ?

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janamdo's picture
janamdo
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Why is broomstickbass Vsti not working- using recording midi out in Synfire ?

I try to load this Vsti from http://www.bornemark.se/bb/index.htm in Synfire, but the rack is doubled and no broomstickbass is loaded.
Can this be fixed ?
Broomstick is used as a example for recording the midi out in Cubase ( interesting to use this for HALion 5 to record midi out for Synfire).   

Is there no way in Synfire to record the midi out from HAlion5 ? ( now it must be done first in Cubase)

At the moment i don't know if i can route the midi out of the layers ( a program can be build up by a maximum of 4
layers and all flexphrased too).
Then i can play a motif in Synfire with HALion5 and record the midi out of the layers into Synfire
With this recorded midi out of HAlion5 in Synfire i can use this for the musical AI

So HALion5 must be capable to have a midi out for the layered sounds of it and Synfire must be capable to record this
Can i record a mid out from a Vsti into Synfire midi channels ?  
 

 

blacksun's picture
blacksun
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Last seen 1 hour 5 min ago

you could use a virtual midi cable to route the halion to then set that as the midi input. Not sure if this would do what you want as the midi input seems to be designed for recording what you play on a midi instrument so I doubt (but am guessing) it would support a multi-timberal input?

 

janamdo's picture
janamdo
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Last seen 3 hours 51 min ago

The midi ouput of Halion must be recorded on a synfire track
Some sounds of HALion do have more then one midi output( flexphrased as a layer )..if this can be done in Cubase (find out yet) ..why not in Synfire? 
Problem is to get a multi output from HAlion and fed this into Synfire: so i play on the keyboard and this midi is recorded in Synfire.

some side info

The Halion City program are 2 synth's and 1 granular module, phrased by 3 flexphrasers, one for every module.
There's no easier way to control from the outside what's happening than through Halion's engine and modifiers itself.
But what I should do if I really want to work outside Halion in my sequencer, is breaking up the program in three MIDI channels and give every layer its own Program (and MIDI channel). Then I would drag out the different phrases to the appropriate tracks in my sequencer.
But for a program like this I would most likely not go through all the hassle because all the flexphrases used in this program can be modified within Halion and it will give you far better control over alternate sources to modify those from within Halion's environment.

But hey.... that's just personal and I would definitely try to see what works for you

About ripping the phrases.
For PC the phrases are stored in %userprofile%\AppData\Roaming\Steinberg\HALion\Sub Presets\Phrases\ but they are all in XML and formatted in a way we probably can't convert, so there's no easy way.

What you could do indeed (although it's a lot of work) is drag and drop all the flexphrases from Halion 5 to Cubase with the length and key you want (this can be done the way we discussed earlier). You can then save them for instance as MIDI loops (File -> Export -> MIDI loop) so you can drag them in from the media bay again when needed.

I'm not sure why you want all the flexphrased modules out of Halion, but I could imagine you would like to make modifications to it and control Halion 5 with them. But keep in mind not all phrases are suitable for other VST's or Halion programs (due to keyswitches, sample placement etc.). So when manually exporting them be sure to think of a good naming scheme to identify them later on and maybe ask yourself before you start a big job like this: what do I gain?

Nevertheless good luck experimenting!

janamdo's picture
janamdo
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Last seen 3 hours 51 min ago

It is rather easy to brake a program in HAlion5 in sub programs now :  you need to add the FX for the program bus for each layer too.
Example program ..3 layers : 3 programs +3 program bus for FX

Better is that HAlion5 gives a midi channel routing for every layer ( it is not possible yet)
Ok now i can make midi channels for the layered sounds... now to record these into Synfire ?

blacksun's picture
blacksun
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Last seen 1 hour 5 min ago

go to the device setup and try selecting the virtual devices / channels and toggling them as midi input. I'm not sure the midi input was designed to record multiple midi channels and devices, more that it was to allow people to record figures by playing them in on a midi keyboard to the currently selected track/instruments... Give it a go and post back.

janamdo's picture
janamdo
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Last seen 3 hours 51 min ago

 To  get the idea of recording a midi  out into a midi track look at this video  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61WCrPdwCiU

I can't follow your proposed setup--ok a midi rack

Better is to have a HALion5 Vsti inside Synfire, the same as in Cubase and use this midi routing system

I can rebuild a program(sound) in HAlion and use midichannels..so i can record track to track in Synfire ( if Synfire could record a midi out into a midi in ..but it can't yet )

It is all experimental  .. :)
Recording a complex (layered flexphrased) sound from Halion as a motif in Synfire and record the midi output of this sound in Synfire
The complex sound can be played on a keyboard as a triggernote, but that is not the real midi out ( this can be processed by Synfire when it should be possible to record the midi out  into a new midi track.)
 

blacksun's picture
blacksun
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Last seen 1 hour 5 min ago

HI janamdo

OMG doesnt cubase make midi routing complicated, no wonder you want to drop cubase and do it all in Synfire. But I dont think thats possible.

If you set up your halion or boombass in Cubase and set the midi imput either from a virtual cable (or midi drone) driven by a synfire instrument or a midi notes in cubase or your keyboard. Instead of creating a new midi track in Cubase to record the output and routing the output of your plugin to this additional track, route it via a virtual midi cable to synfire, set the synfire input to this device.

You will probably have to do something with the output of the synfire track youre recording on as you cant route it back to the halion/boombase or you wil lmake a midi loop and disappear up your own bum!! At least you will capture the output midi into synfire.

Its still easier I think to just work in cubase, then export the midi you record in cubase and import it into synfire.

 

Oh looking at your boombass example, you are going to capture key switches, so you need to make sure your instrument device is properly setup with them or they will just be interpreted as midi notes and altered by synfire to make musical sense.

 

janamdo's picture
janamdo
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Last seen 3 hours 51 min ago

Hi Blacksun

Boombass Vst has midi out, but HAlion 5 doesn't have this midi out yet..
So routing to midi in of  Synfire midi rack is not yet possible with HAlion5.
The only possible thing to do with HAlion5 is to make out from a program(sound) its layers ( a layered sound) , some new program for each layer ( every layer becomes a program and get therefore a own midi channel  in HALion5)

Then you get a midichannel for every layer in HAlion5, but how to get the midi out from the Halion5 ? : it can be recorded if it is a flexphrased layer in HAlion5 itself.
Suppose you have a 4 layered sound with 2 layers are flexphrased and 2 others layers not : how to get this midi recorded with a keyboard in Synfire

I can record a midi sequenze (motif) in HALion5 and maybe replay this for getting out the midi for the flexphraser ( if it is recordable?)
This seems to be not working too.. so a midi out for the  HAlion5 could be the solution AND a midi out recording in Synfire too

 

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