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Import of drum loops: why 2 phrases ?

Posted

when importing drum loops that have exactly the length of one measure (mostly 4/4) synfire always creating 2 equal phrases from each loop, so the phrase looks like this (see also screenshot):

 

figure(4/4) --> empty measure (4/4) --> figure(4/4).

 

This is not optimal for listening/preview...You also need to delete the pause and the unnecessary 2nd figure when dragging the loop into a track.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong in the import settings panel ?

Attachments

Mon, 2015-01-26 - 11:47 Permalink

Try disabling the "Create Phrase Pools" switch.

When Synfire creates phrase pools, it splits tracks into smaller portions, but no shorter than 4/1. 

Mon, 2015-01-26 - 12:08 Permalink

But you need to create phrase pools in order for the drum parts to be correctly named, otherwise they are all named Track 1 (for example).

Ideally the drum loops should be correctly named without the phrase pool option.  The other downside of phrase pools for drum loops (as we've discussed before) is that your library ends up twice as big as it needs to be because you get the phrase pools plus the master take.

Fri, 2015-01-30 - 16:57 Permalink

Release 1.7.10 provides an option for naming phrases after track names, channels or file names. Also, empty measures are trimmed from phrases on import.

Sat, 2015-01-31 - 18:25 Permalink

This is so much better now, thanks Andre.

There's a few things to mention/ask though:

  • I wondered what would happen if I un-ticked Keep Takes, Create Phrase Pools and Keep Master Take.  Well it crashed (crash report submitted).  My guess is you need at least one of those options ticked.
  • The new Pool Chunks option shows the Quantize Tracks 'help' when you hover over it
  • I've imported some drum loops (fills) that are only 1 bar long with only the option Keep Master Take ticked (i.e. not creating phrase pools).  The result is 2 bars long with the second bar empty.  Does the new Pool Chunks option have an affect on this, even if you're not creating phrase pools?  If so, what should it be set to please?

Sat, 2015-01-31 - 20:56 Permalink

My guess is you need at least one of those options ticked.

Yes, but it should deliver empty pools and not crash. 

The new Pool Chunks option shows the Quantize Tracks 'help'

Already fixed this for the next build, thanks.

The master take of 1-bar files will often be longer than 1 bar, because notes tend to reach beyond the last bar. If you know the patterns are 1 bar long, use that as the chunk size and don't keep the master take. Synfire will drop empty phrases anyway.

 

Sun, 2015-02-08 - 15:10 Permalink

I have updated to the last version 1.7.10 build 9, some problems remain

Issue #1: After import, all phrases have the instrument GM.Contrabass assigned, although I have selected GM.DrumKit in the import window (I know you can correct it for all phrases via right click on lib folder: assign instrument)

I have also noticed in the import window that synfire first suggests GM.Contrabass and polyphonic. I change it, but synfire seems to change it back during or after  import.

 

Issue #2: Although the pattern plays back correctly when previewing it, ie. click on it in the library, the sounds/pitches are not mapped correctly when  dragging it into a track with instrument GM.DrumKit, e.g. instead of the snares you hear hi-hats, somehow messed up. However when dragging a pattern from the synfire example drum phrases, it sounds correctly.

 

Maybe I need to change import settings (see screenshot attached). ?

 

Attachments

Tue, 2015-02-10 - 22:00 Permalink

When yo import multiple files, Synfire will determine the sounds per track automatically for each file anew. There is no way to assign sounds across multiple files in advance (because the files may be quite different).

Wed, 2015-02-11 - 08:45 Permalink

Ok but what about the  issue #2?  How can it be that synfire maps the drum pitches correctly in the listening preview but not when I drag the phrase into a GM.DrumKit track?  

 Attached one of the midi files

Wed, 2015-02-11 - 11:34 Permalink

But as you can see from the screenshot I have already ticked "static notes on all tracks "

Wed, 2015-02-11 - 13:30 Permalink

When yo import multiple files, Synfire will determine the sounds per track automatically for each file anew. There is no way to assign sounds across multiple files in advance (because the files may be quite different).

Surely when you tick Static Notes On All Tracks the intention is for the whole batch file to be static, not just the first file?  This is certainly what would be required when importing a folder of drum loops, but it would also be extremely useful for rapid import of a folder full of MIDI arrangements.

Perhaps a separate set of parameters could be available for batch importing, which would override the single file parameters.

Wed, 2015-02-11 - 14:04 Permalink

The Static Pitches on All Tracks option only affects how the track's notes are interpreted, not the sounds being selected.

If the file contains program change messages, Synfire will use these to guess the sound. You could try and disable 'GM' for the import. 

Thu, 2015-02-12 - 09:41 Permalink

The "wrong" sound selection is not the real  problem, but rather that the pitches are mapped wrong (transposed) when dragging the loop into a track.  Perhaps it is a problem that the original drum midi file has channel 1 set and not 10. However as mentioned above this fact is no problem when it is just about previewing the phrase.

Thu, 2015-02-12 - 10:01 Permalink

If static pitches are imported for an instrument with a limited playing range, Synfire transposes them into the octave of that range. Static does not necessarily mean drums.

Drumkits have a full range by default, so this more likely happens for other types on instruments.

Therefore the wrong sond selection is indeed the problem here.

Try disabling the 'Transpose' option globally.