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No custom phrase in HN2

Posted

I don't understand the use of HN2 if it is not to allowed of using my own phrases


If it like now, only possible to import a phrase via Midi import, there is no easy oversight of the patterns and no listening
There is no oversight of what pattern is used in HN2 in a song or accompaniment


It is necessary to have a sort of database of phrase..


Perhaps a policy of Cognitone to do it on this way?   


 


I think it is a really limitation of Harmony2 to don't have a real freedom in phrases patterns and work with them in a open way 


Thu, 2011-08-18 - 13:01 Permalink

Seems you need Synfire Pro :-D


But I don't understand, why you say there is no listening of the patterns. Of course you can listen to your patterns.

Thu, 2011-08-18 - 16:20 Permalink

 Yes Synfire Pro gives more freedom.. i like that very much too :-D


It is only the price what it make not so desirable ( for me unfortenaly )


Harmony navigator has to do with premade phrases and for a instrument you can select  the builtin phrases and it is easy listening to them


That can i not say for my  user phrases : i must load them first in HN2 and than i can listeming to them..very cumbersome if i compare it with the builtin phrases : easy selecting and listening


 


A weak point is also there is no name on the thumbnail pattern what pattern is playing


 


So these 2 points should be improved in HN2


- no user phrases with a jumpmenu and categorizing them by my self
- no pattern name


 


When this possible in HN2 that there is a better exchance from songs made by users and we can then learn from eachother songs..seems to me.


 


Ofcourse i like much more try to make music with synfire pro and therefore a bought HN2 for a introduction price and perhaps its price goes to 249 than i can make a upgrade ..haha 


 


  

Thu, 2011-08-18 - 18:39 Permalink

I also use HN2 and still do not see the problem. You can store your phrases in a song-file or in an accompaniment-file and open them within seconds. You can give the files the name you want and store them in folders for categorizing.
You could also store all of your phrases into one song file then open this file if you need phrases for a project and select the phrase you want with drag and drop. I do not see an advantage, having phrases in a jumpmenu.

Thu, 2011-08-18 - 18:59 Permalink

i can suggest a workaround for the making-building your own phrase library.
To being organised create a folder, name it "Phrase Libraries"
inside this folder create the folders will contain the instruments categories so
Bass , Guitar , Drum etc.

now lets say we have bunch of categorized midi files : Bass , Guitars, Pianos ...
and we want to prepare the Bass phrase library.
Open new song add just " 1" instrument... in this case this will be our Bass library ,
click to the "Instr." tab , activate the "Direct Addressing"
choose your virtual midi out device and channel that you want to assign
use same virtual midi device+port but unique channel for evey instruments
(in my setup im using Copperlan Virtual Midi + port 4 ; Ch1 for Bass, Ch2 for Guitar , Ch3 for Piano ...Ch10 for drums obviously ... and i reserved Ch16 for the Auto Chords )
Now press Ctrl+Shift+N this will add the new Section every time you press
This is the important part = create "One Section for every Bass midi files" and don't use the "File" import dialog use "Phrase" import instead ( or right click to the track that you created and choose import... its same) .
Multiply the Sections as you need and import all midi files one by one to this sections,
once you finish the importing midi files - (building phrase libraries)
save song inside to folders that you created earlier in this case Bass library so save the Song in the Bass folder inside the Phrase Libraries.
Same procedure for the all other instruments .
important things are:
0.take your time and tea/coffe be concentrate to one "job" at a time: import-build phrase lib.(I.M.H.O.)
1. Use same midi device and port ; for avoiding the confusions
2.Use specific midi Channel for every instruments ; when you want to continue the building new libraries for the Bass or for the drums you will knew bass is on Ch1 drum is Ch10 etc.
3.Create a Template Project in your host ; starting from scratch every time over and over not the .... ... you name it :)

for the final example lets assume that we already prepared Bass, Piano , Guitar and Drum libraries with this way.
Open your host and load your Temaplate Project that you prepared.
now open your Phrase Libraries folder and run the libraries with double click
Bass. piano. drum keep this 3 lib. windows open

"Thanks to Andre we can open multiple windows at same time"

create an empty song this is a new song that you can work on it... add instruments that you want to use, in this case Bass , piano and drums . Assing every instruments its own Direct Address output.
Go to bass library press play , listen- preview the sections , when you find a phrase that you want to use just drag n drop the Figure parameter from library window to the new song/ bass channel's Figure parameter
preview + choose and add drums and piano with the same way .

BTW, this is way faster to do than write about....

im attaching 2 example song-library that i build

i hope it helps

Thu, 2011-08-18 - 23:09 Permalink

Thanks for the idea and explanation!


If i understand it correct than i must work with 2 songwindows open..it rather complicated to follow.


- one song window with section parts, where are assigned the phrases as midi files from the folders to the section parts and than saved as song file (extension) 


 


- one songwindow for making the actual song 


When i open e.g your HHOPBASS.cogson than i get a error : mesage not understood: # FromFileIn ..message may be corrupted


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i assume that it is not necessary to place the new library in the songfolder ?

With your example libraries ..i must only load this and that's all? ( in this case you made already a instrument setup )

Thu, 2011-08-18 - 23:49 Permalink

hi
yes im working with 4 window at same time
when you get used to it there will be no confusion and no problem IMHO
erm...error message.....
i download from here for the testing and they opened fine
did you update the HN2? im using the latest beta version (( 2.1.1 Build #5 BETA windows ))

for your
"" i assume that it is not necessary to place the new library in the songfolder ? ""
question :

it depends on your taste i guess
one thing i can say i love being to be organized .
i created folder structure for my library as i mention ... also ill Backup often that folder to elsewhere to be safety of the hard work.

and for the last Q.
"" With your example libraries ..i must only load this and that's all?
( in this case you made already a instrument setup )""
yes
but the instrument setup that i did its specific to my pc of course..
you should change to your configuration ( i mean the setup = in the Instr. / Sound / Direct Addressing )

Thu, 2011-08-18 - 23:52 Permalink

In Synfire Pro you can go to library/application support/SynfirePro/configurations/.

 

There you can enter  your own patterns and progressions (in respective folders).  These show up as Synfire Presets.

 

You might be able to do something similar in HN2

 

Fri, 2011-08-19 - 00:10 Permalink

Hi .. i mean yor short tutorial is a little bit difficult to follow .. i do use 2creens also ... at least 3 screens for HN2


 


I did not update HN2 to the BETA finally..when i did it earlier  i got the impression there is somethingh wrong with the HN2BETA


That is probably the cause of not loading the libraryfile..you use a newer version of HN2 and i noticed this already earlier


 


As i understand from you i can place the libraryfile anywhere..well than i must update HN2 to the BETA version and look than to the new improvements


Thanks


 


 

Fri, 2011-08-19 - 00:16 Permalink

Hi


Yeah..that is a good idea too , than i can use the jumpmenu


Let me look if i can find this  configuration file in HN2


Thanks

Fri, 2011-08-19 - 09:37 Permalink

Yes it works with the libraryfiles from soundcase when i updated HN2
There are configuration files in HN2 ofcourse, but how to open them with file extension. prefs ?


 

Fri, 2011-08-19 - 18:12 Permalink

Hi HN2 do not allow users to build own "Phrase libraries" right now .
I hope this will change in the near future.
Anyway, big brother Synfire has not such a limit of course.
so don't let the terminology confuse you.
if you are talking about doing something with the example "Fake" libraries that i suggest/upload,
there is nothing to do with them in the "Config" folder.
Just because of my examples are only "Hn2 Songs" ,
they are not actually "Library" files ...
So they not the same thing with "Example Phrases" file,
(Example Phrases in the " Cognitone\Harmony Navigator 2\Config\Libraries\ " folder)...
as i said in my first post i was suggesting a workaround to limitation of building our phrase library in HN2

Fri, 2011-08-19 - 19:18 Permalink

Hi,


I am very curious to Synfire Pro what composing is all about there


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In Synfire Pro you can go to library/application support/SynfirePro/configurations/.


 


There you can enter  your own patterns and progressions (in respective folders).  These show up as Synfire Presets.


 


You might be able to do something similar in HN2


Maybe there is something possible with user pattern in HN2 like in Synfire pro..but as i looked there..not like in his big brother
It is a rather expensive piece of software Synfire pro.


 


Recently i stumbled on Pizzicato Pro ( 195 Euro ) and there it is all about notes and chords, but for composing also advanced.
Composing with HN2 is not so easy to learn and therefore more songs from user can be a learning experience
I hope that Cognitone the phrase names of the pattern will be letting showing up in the thumbnail figure and add a user pattern section too