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I open the arrangment demo 1 and i cannot easy see how this arrangment is build up
The root container ..arrangment contains 5 instruments in the instrument sheet and 3 of them are visible
How many instruments are involved in the rootcontainer ?
Can it be a instrument ...with no figure in it ?
What containers are related with the rootcontainer ?
The container inspector can give also some more information about the type of container ?
There is no action list of container building ?
Example: try to figure out what paramterchances are made for the Bass variation container
Figure assigned in rootcontainer...versus snapshot container|
Suppose i add a instrument outside the rootcontainer ?
There is no easy reading for me from th earrangment like : there are 5 rootinstrument and from 5 to 17 ( the first container there is a rhodes motive made from a snapshot ..what is happened with this container ?
I think the only solution for this to work with SFP to get used of the workflow, because there is no easy analysing what is be done in the arrangement
It should be handy if this was possible
Tue, 2012-08-07 - 03:21 Permalink
Hiya,
Every instrument is present throughout the song in every container, it doesn't matter which container you add it to, it will be present in them all. However you can collapse unused instruments, ie hide the figures in containers that have none, but the heading still persists.
Parameters and figures in containers lower in the display override those in containers above. You can have as many containers as you like and if it helps your workflow, even 1 container per instrument/figure.
There is an option to turn on a greyed out view so you can select the route container and the display will show what's playing regardless of which container the figures come from.
It takes a bit of getting used to if you are familiar with a daw and keep thinking of it as a daw, but when the realisation sinks in, it's a pretty powerful workflow.
Tue, 2012-08-07 - 10:15 Permalink
Turn on View >> Trace Parameters. This indicates in which containers the selected parameter is set. Very helpful. IMHO, this setting should be enabled by default.
Tue, 2012-08-07 - 15:48 Permalink
Yes a good idea !
You need only select the instruments further in the instrument sheet to see what parameter is involved for a particulair container.
I am studying the Arrangement demo 1
- There is a bass Variations container , but the variation parameter is set for the whole song _ so makes it senses to make this container: bass variations?
- The morphing piano trace parameter bar has no green color ? ..there is 1 parameter chanced: morphing
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Suppose i do use a template with 16 instruments and i use only 10 of them.. than all instruments will be listed in the instrument sheet list.
Is it possible to see this instrument sheet list .. some instruments do not have a figure assigned to them ( there is no data ) ?
Can there be added a visual sign for the track that is it empty in the instrument sheet list?
Tue, 2012-08-07 - 16:13 Permalink
Can there be added a visual sign for the track that is it empty in the instrument sheet list?
There is the view option "minimize" (the button with a "m"), which minimizes all instruments in the arrange window that don't have a phrase filled in the current container (see manual, page 77). If you apply that option then you will recognize empty instruments in that they are minimized.
Tue, 2012-08-07 - 20:15 Permalink
Thanks!
A important button to know what's in the rootcontainer for instruments, but it is also for in general to all containers.
Still i like to see a visual sign what are the root instruments in the instrument sheet list in the rootcontainer
Even if the instrument is minimized in the rootcontainer it has a figure in a other container
I like to see a visual sign for instruments in the rootcontainer what don't have assigned a figure at all
Tue, 2012-08-07 - 22:28 Permalink
There is an option to remove unused instruments. It's also possible to mark the whole time frame then crqeate a new container, make a snapshot and you end up with a container with all the resulting notes. You can see this in the video for exporting part of a tune to another song.
Once you can see what's used and what isn't you can delete the new container.
Tue, 2012-08-07 - 23:26 Permalink
Thanks!
That is when you exporting a song part
I like to have a template in SFP with instruments, some of them i don't use at the start of the arrangement
So they don't have a figure assigned to it..for those instruments i like to have a visual sign in the rootcontainer
For example: if you use as a start 3 instruments in your rootcontainer by importing this and add a extra 2 instruments to the arrangement, than those two instruments are minimized in the instrument sheet list
But the 2 instruments do have figures assigned to them
All instruments can be seen in the rootcontainer..
So i cannot see if there is minimized instrument with no figure assigned and one minimized instrument with a figure assigned to it ..if i both instruments should(are) minimized
I like to have a classical score template, and i am not sure how many instruments i will be using
I can combine this template with a imported instruments if i like where already figures are assigned too
My point is there is difference in instruments who are minimized in the rootcontainer.
Wed, 2012-08-08 - 03:45 Permalink
Some one asked for the m button to act as a toggle, minimising unused instruments on first push and maximising used instruments on the second push. I don't think that is implemented yet (haven't tried it) but would go someway to solving your issue.
I think though that possibly you are still thinking in terms of a daw and tracks. Think of containers for thinks like verse, bridge, chorus or the classical equivalents, overriding the chord progression, alternative melodies, bass lines, etc. coupled with alias containers and additional containers when necessary it makes it much easier to come up with an arrangement that has enough variety but also sounds coherent. Remember a child container can hold an instrument with a parameter that stops it rendering (step comes to mind but that might not be the one).
Keep watching the videos (even the old ones) reading the manual, asking questions here and eventually a light will turn on and you will see the power in this program. It took me ages to grasp the limited knowledge I have and for ages I thought I'd wasted my money. However especially after all the recent changes, it really really does speed up my workflow and in my opinion, enable me to make better music. It is worth the effort.
Wed, 2012-08-08 - 05:05 Permalink
Some one asked for the m button to act as a toggle, minimising unused instruments on first push and maximising used instruments on the second push. I don't think that is implemented yet (haven't tried it) but would go someway to solving your issue.
Thanks!
Yes it is already there ..the m (minimize) button
Indeed unused instruments in the rootcontainer are minimized, but these instruments are used in in not-rootcontainers.
( i don't know how to define exactly a parent container : a container that contains more containers?)
Than the rootcontainer is a parent container too
But my point is that there are now 2 types of unused instruments to be seen in the rootcontainer
-minimized 1 : has a figure assigned to a instrument in a not-root container
-minimized 2 : has no figure assigned to a instrument and has no container yet
To have a clear oversight of the arrangement what instruments are involved .. i like to see a before the minimized (2) instrument a visual sign that this instrument doesn't have a figure assigned to it
So the m(minimize) button when using shows than exactly what instruments are assigned in the rootcontainer.. i like to know what the basis is of my arrangement...do you agree?
Wed, 2012-08-08 - 08:52 Permalink
Hi janamdo,
The option to display what's playing in grey is indeed the one yOu want. Then if you maximise all instruments in the root container you will see 3 types of instrument:
Instruments with solid notes where there are figures in the root container.
Instruments with greyed out notes where there are figures in other containers.
Instruments with no notes where there is no container with figures for that instrument.
However you may need to scroll along through the song, if for instance you have an instrument paying notes later in the song. Sorry I'm on the iPad and can't remember what the option is called but it was introduced a few updates ago (within the last 6 months I think)
the other option is to create a container for export, if you maximise all instruments in the new container, then use the option to minimise unused ones, every one that minimises will have no figures in any container.
Or lastly, remove unused instruments, note Which instruments are gone, then undo?
Maybe Andre can add some sort of highlight or dimness on an instrument to indicate it is completely unused, so that it is more obvious without having to go through any of the above faffing about?
Wed, 2012-08-08 - 09:11 Permalink
There is certainly room for future improvements regarding arrange overview. We are
thinking about different options, although it is not advisable to do a quick shot. This is long term evolution. The more input we can collect, the better.
For now, the above suggested
solutions are available.
Wed, 2012-08-08 - 10:52 Permalink
Maybe Andre can add some sort of highlight or dimness on an instrument to indicate it is completely unused, so that it is more obvious without having to go through any of the above faffing about?
Thanks!
Yes, i do want to recognize empty instruments in the rootcontainer..so than i know what the real instruments are involved in the arrangement
I can make a template for instruments .. and have a oversight now
Seems to be a easy fix in SFP ;)
But perhaps not..you can think also ..to hide the unsed instruments for the moment of the template in the instrument sheet list, because it distract you from composing and to see all the time the whole template.
With this feature you can load templates..like in Cubase 6.5 as example
Note: i am a little bit more focussed on structured working, has maybe something to do with my math background ?