Posted
I am finding the learning curve of HN (and Synfire, for when I had the demo period) to be quite steep. A program that has no familiar analog (Ableton is easy to get marginally started because it at some level resembles other DAWs, despite having other more novel capabilities) and is also expansive and unique in it's capabilities takes some time to get the hang of. Or at least, I've never used anything like this.
It's even worse when I search the forums and see people talking about 'Harmony Navigator' in the present tense, but are actually talking about a different version that didn't have the same capabilities as the current version. Since I don't really know the chronology of updates, the timestamps on posts are marginally useful.
I don't know if this is possible in the forum software, but it would be immensely helpful if users were required to select the version of software they are referring to before they can post in program related forums, to help lost users (there will be lots of us until a more comprehensive knowledge and tutorial database develops from Cognitone and the community!) identify postings about legacy versions of the software with different capabilities, and the version they are using. This might not be the best solution to this problem, but I figured I would lay my problem out there so it could be considered, or so someone could point me to the already existing feature that I missed!
Thanks,
Dixon
Mi., 24.10.2012 - 09:48 Permalink
Good point. It may even be more helpful to delete older posts that are no longer relevant.
I am finding the learning curve of HN (and Synfire, for when I had the demo period) to be quite steep.
Do not hestitate to post your questions, no matter how basic they are. How is Cognitone otherwise supposed to learn where to improve things?
Mi., 24.10.2012 - 10:11 Permalink
I considered suggesting that, but I have trouble throwing away even empty paper towel tubes. Perhaps an archive forum would be helpful, in case someone is in fact able to glean information from old postings?
Thank you, I plan to start interacting here more (I purchased HN the other day) and asking my basic questions. The biggest issue so far is really me just wrapping my head around what exactly it is that I am doing when I do things. For example, once I fully understand what niche each of the programs fill, in addition to precisely what happens during the import process, how figures are utilized in songs, etc. I will start picking up momentum. I understand the user manual descriptions of these things, but while well written, it's quite clinical, as most manuals are.
Honestly, I think a very helpful thing would be the ability to watch someone working on their library, building a song/compositon from start to finish etc. For example, Tom Cosm has done things similar to that in regards to producing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk0tUUp7Yxc
While that might be a scary thing for some musicians (giving away secrets! it's a natural reaction) to show their workflow, something like that to supplement short tutorials is, in my mind, invaluable for new users. Especially in a community this small.
Not really a question, but your post reminded me of it, so, there you go, heh.
Mi., 24.10.2012 - 18:18 Permalink
Supah T writes: How is Cognitone otherwise supposed to learn where to improve things?
This is, of course, a rhetorical question whose answer is 'user feedback.' But the question remains: which or what type of user feedback is considered important?
There has been a current of complaint from the beginning about the adequacy of documentation.
There is probably a 'double edged sword:' as Cognitone has been responsive to listen to user requests for features and bug fixes, it has at the same time increased the complexity of keeping the documentation up to date.
However, basic aids such as an indexed manual or an appendix of menu items is lacking.
These dull clerical tasks are not as stimulating or rewarding as pushing the envelope on this brilliant program with deeper features, but in my opinion failure to address them holds back a wider acceptance of the program because the learning curve is too steep.
Appropos of Ableton, there is nothing wrong with a program that works in a unique and novel fashion unless conventional documentation is also lacking.
Prado
Do., 25.10.2012 - 03:32 Permalink
Prado, I agree in a very general sense, as I haven't developed a sense of the community yet.
However, I would venture to say that the creative communities in which I DO have experience, people generally only learn mechanics of programs from the manual. This may go without saying.
To use an analogy, collegiate learning rarely transfers directly into real on the job competency (more so in fields such as engineering, and vocational arts programs, such as the design BFA I am working on) which is largely gained during the 'long tail' phase of learning.
Visualize here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/49653615@N00/3677544716/
I imagine that these ideas go without saying to most people here. However, a survey of the wiki, forums, and knowledgebase, leads me to believe that the only things to learn about Cognitone products are techinical ones. I know this is not true. To illustrate, I'm going to copy and paste a few titles:
Wiki
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Connecting HN with VSTi's juergen 7 hours 31 min ago new
Using Synfire and DAW on same ASIO device ( for Windows only ) janamdo 16 hours 55 min ago new
Synfire & Reaper soundcase 1 day 1 hour ago new
Articulations in SFE - Workaround for the missing 'Pro' features janamdo 20 hours 5 min ago new
Synfire Setup Wiki andre 1 day 6 hours ago new
MIDI Drones in Cubase juergen 1 day 5 hours ago new
Sample Wiki Page For Testing
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Knowledge Base
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Using Synfire and DAW on same ASIO device andre 4 days 8 hours ago new
Error -5000 while verifying your authorization admin 4 days 16 hours ago new
Message: [E0079] The present installation belongs to a different user or product admin 4 days 16 hours ago updated
Drones not showing up in Synfire ("Online" indicator off) andre 17 weeks 2 days ago
Drones not showing up in Synfire ("Online" indicator on) andre 17 weeks 2 days ago
Drone VST not showing up in DAW andre 17 weeks 2 days ago
Message: "You can't open the application because it may be damaged or... admin 4 days 16 hours ago updated
MIDI Playback Very Quiet on Mac OS X 10.7 (Lion) supertonic 9 weeks 4 days ago MacOS X 10.7 Lion
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My intuition tells me that the Knowledge Base should be for, as it states itself "Solutions, explanations and workarounds regarding technical issues with installing and setting up Cognitone software." The wiki for things that are not necessarily only those things. Yet, the wiki pages are all topics that appear to my novice eye to belong in the Knowledge Base.
So, to me, the issue is somewhat less 'how do we get information from Andre's brain to users?' but rather 'how do we get experience from veteran users available to all?' Or, how do we encourage people who know what they are doing to not only use the software, but to interact and trade ideas and fill the Wiki with topics more in the direction of 'How I build a composition in my genre'.
The tutorials section is helpful (besides some of them, at least when I looked at them last, using outdated menus and whatnot) but every author is listed as admin, Cognitone, or andre. The ability to properly document processes will be unstable given the software's speed of development right now, of course. But I can't help but think that encouraging and enabling users to share their unique methods of using more explicitly would help the learning curve. I unfortunately, don't know what that would look like.
A bit of a disclaimer, I'm not making a criticism per se, I'm trying to share my intial perceptions before I become immersed in the program and community. I think that's valuable, many may disagree and that is fine and I hope it is understood.
Much love,
Dixon