Drones

Posted Sa., 15.06.2024 - 22:55

Why is the Drones implementation so bad?

I'am a long term user of Synfire (probably over ten years). I'am using Logic 11 as my plugin host and midi drones. All software the latest version.

I setup my Drone's in logic and make sure they are loaded. Map them to tracks in Synfire. All is fine.

I save the two projects under the same name (not using templates in Logic). Sometimes I can reload the joint project fine, then the next time a drone is missing. Close everything without saving and try again (even reboot the mac).

This time almost all of the time some drones are missing. Project wont open properly and Iam left like a dummy to remove and add all drones to Logic project again, then map them in Synfire and save again.

Try to open and there are drones missing again. Sometimes different ones!

All report in Logic they are online. When I look at the device inspector a single random drone or more are missing.

Its repeatable and its been the same over the years in Synfire, I never know if a project will successfully reopen again, even if I follow all the rules strictly (e.g. setting logic to load a plugin for sure at start)

For the last years Ive been coming back periodically to see if there is an improvement in this again whilst using other products which are much more straight forward and work everytime.

I'am back now but this is still a big problem. Perhaps people are hosting vst's in Synfire directly and so this is not a problem for them. But when eventually moving to the DAW this has to work 100% of the time. How can it be so complicated?

So my question is. after following all the steps, can we have a more robust way of dealing with Drones, are there other people with the same problem, I'am I missing something?

If the answers are no, no or no then I need to admit that this will never improve and move on.

andre

So., 16.06.2024 - 14:14 Permalink

I'm using Logic and Synfire myself for all kinds of testing and for many demo tracks.

A cause of problems is when Logic skips or postpones the loading of plug-ins (which includes Drones). Synfire needs to connect to all of them at startup. If Logic doesn't see a MIDI region associated with an instrument plug-in, it won't load the plug-in.

You must make sure in your Logic settings that all plug-ins are loaded no matter what. IIRC, it's a project preference.
Make sure you always save Synfire first, then Logic (saving an arrangement in Synfire updates all Drones with rendered output so you can play it offline).
When you restore a project, open the Logic file first and wait 10 seconds for all Drones to go online (connect with Synfire), then open the Synfire arrangement. It will now find its Drones.

This feels complicated because a network of connections needs to be synchronized between two applications while one of them (Logic) has no idea what the Drone plug-ins are doing and treats them like ordinary virtual instruments (and tries to be smart about whether they are needed or not).

An issue with lost Drone links has been fixed in a recent update. Possibly there are still broken links in your arrangements from an earlier version. You can unlock and re-assign them on the left sidebar.

andre

So., 16.06.2024 - 15:20 Permalink

Also don't 'Duplicate' a track in Logic that has already a Drone loaded. Other DAW load a new Drone instance but Logic somehow creates an identical copy of the Drone with the same ID (which is no longer unique).

This is a known problem we have not yet fixed.

plopseaw

So., 16.06.2024 - 21:50 Permalink

Andre,

Thanks for your thoughtful and informative reply. I had already all those in place including the load of vsts before they are used.

Seems like a game changer is to wait the 10-20 seconds when starting logic and loading the project. If I do this Drones are not lost and the project on both sides restores. (If Iam using bluetooth headphones and the connection is disrupted during the session I have the same problem as before, which I can live with)

In this setup a also try to use the listen and preview of imported midi files. Its starts the transport in Synfire to play the preview in context of the whole track but logic doesn't start its transport and so doesn't play anything which is a shame as its such a useful feature to have it play in context. I have MMC setup as explained in the tutorial which works very tightly on full playback. Perhaps something is different here?

Again thanks for the practical advice, I'am back on the Synfire trail. Could you take a look at the preview issue with Logic pro or offer some advice how I might set it up better with Logic.

Paul.

andre

Mo., 17.06.2024 - 14:13 Permalink

Every DAW behaves differently. These 10sec delays are necessary to accommodate some of that behavior. There is no protocol to ask a DAW if it's ready, or query its internal status (except transport). It takes a lot of experimentation and debugging to get this working.

We will add a hint to the manual. 10sec should be safe for any number of Drones to come online. You can also see that status in a Drone's window.

Preview should also work with a DAW transport, thanks for pointing out. I'll check that.

plopseaw

Fr., 21.06.2024 - 23:38 Permalink

Preview now works with the DAW transport, thanks for sorting this one out. Its a brilliant implementation of preview (except, of course ;)

While I'am here is there a way to just preview the figure? For instance I have a bunch of chord progressions which I want to preview as they are. Of course when I preview the figure it automatically arranges itself to the current progression. Is there a way to do a "raw" preview?

Also when changing figures from a library (e.g. using the down arrow icon) is there a way to stop Synfire from asking if I want to change the instrument, almost everytime? Ive assigned it to a Drone already and everytime want to stick with that assignment.

Paul.