Can I specify the scale to play over a certain chord?

Sure. Just pick the vertical scale you want in the progression editor.

Key would be C.Minor, which also includes the C Major chord. Chord are not limited to the horizontal scale.

Was going through this...

How would I play a horizontal pentatonic scale over compatible harmony for the entire progression, instead of picking the harmony first and then using the suggestion of horizontal scales (because alot of times pentatonic doesn't showup for me in the suggestions)? How could I set this up in the catalog or palettes?

I also dont want my chordset to be limited to chords that can be made out of the pentatonic scales. 
 

Open a palette on that scale and pick any chords. Add more scales to add borrowed notes to the mix.

But if he adds more scales to add more chords to the palette, those chords will then have a different associated horizontal scale and thats probably not exactly what he tries to get. 

Playing a C major chord over a C pentaminor horizontal scale seems indeed a bit difficult to achieve. If that chord/scale combination makes sense harmonically is another question though.

Make sure pentamajor or pentaminor is your reference (first) scale on the palette. That will make its modes the preferred choice for vertical scales (Grab chords directly from the palette). Of course, if you add chords outside the reference scale, the modes don't fit. Some other scale is selected then.

If your goal is having root notes move in pentatonic steps (regardless of vertical scales), you pick chords from the upper part of the palette only.

The movement of root notes is often informally referred to as the "horizontal scale". Synfire uses stricter constraints per chord. But that doesn't prevent you from moving along the desired H scale in your progression.

Basically what Juergen said..

Andre, I hear what youre saying. Im making Rnb music and often pentatonic scales and runs are used horizontally but harmonized with chords outside of the scale. This is my end goal

Forget about vertical scales becuase the root changes. 

This is a scaleset I made, the problem is, there is no 6 or 7th for me to harmonize my horizontal pentatonic with even as I have the natural minor as a secondary scale. Just because those scale degrees dont show up, this does NOT mean a 6th or 7th from another scale cant be harmonized with the pentatonic scale. 

My goal is to have root notes move in pentatonic steps only (no change of association) using more than just chords made up on the pentatotonic scale...there has to be a way to manipulate synfire to do this...through the catalog maybe? I imagine this is the deal for every horizontal scale using less than 7 scale degrees.

My goal is to have root notes move in pentatonic steps only (no change of association) using more than just chords made up on the pentatonic scale

That's what your palette does. In addition to the reference scale (pentatonic) you need to add scale(s) below that include the intervals you are missing. 

You could also create a custom pentatonic scale (in the Catalog) with the extra intervals appended and add that to the palette.

As a quick test, Ive added every single related scale but I am still not able to build chords on outside scale degrees as synfire makes me leave the pentatonic scale upon doing so. Is there a way around this, while keeping the reference Pentatonic? Can I build 2nd and 6th degree chords upon the pentatonic horizontal scale? I dont want to leave the pentatonic scale, which synfire is forcing me to do, once selected. 

Problem with adding a new scale in the catalog is that synfire will begin rendering blue figures outside of the pentatonic scale as well...I think?

I am still not able to build chords on outside scale degrees as synfire makes me leave the pentatonic scale upon doing so.

You can't ask Synfire to play a scale that doesn't include all chord notes. A scale must include at least the chord.

Can I build 2nd and 6th degree chords upon the pentatonic horizontal scale?

If by degree you refer to the steps of the pentatonic scale, you can only build chords that show up on a palette with exclusively that scale. Other chords will require notes outside the scale.

Can you tell some examples you have in mind (chord + scale)?

Ex: Fmajor (6th of A Natural Minor) with Horizontal Amin Pentatonic scale playing over it.

In Synfire, this is not possible but in the real world, this is common. Green figures would render the F Major chord in natural minor and blue symbols would stay in pentatonic, rendering just the TWO common notes, A and C. We don't need to render the natural minor F note in the blue symbols, just in the chords. 

Can we get an option to set this up in the Catalog or palette somehow? 

 

Sure you can do that:

Just pick the vertical scale Pentamajor. That will ensure the green/blue symbol mapping you describe. While the blue H symbols start at the reference scale's root (A.natural-minor), they are constrained to use only the current V scale's notes.

You can pick that scale for any major chord. That will land you in different "Relation" keys, of course. Don't worry about Relation. It's merely a reminder that you are out of key. On a score you would simply see more accidentals.

Now for the palette. Since you can pick a pentatonic scale for any major or minor chord, you can use a palette with the nearest major/minor key.

When you grab a chord though, Synfire will not automatically select a pentatonic scale for you. You need to set that in the progression.

I tried this, but it doesn't work for me. Probably because A.pentaminor (A C D E G) is not a rotation of F.pentamajor (F G A C D).

In this example, the blue symbols render to A C D F G actually.

Didnt work for me either. When I say green symbols, I am referring to chord symbols, btw.

I may be jumping the gun early here but I dont see a way to use 1 horizontal scale over out of scale chords. If the chords have common tones with the horizontal scale (in the F Maj example I gave, theres actually 2), it would be nice to have that option.

The clash of the b3 in the scale with the 3 in the chord would be awful. Like playing a major chord and a minor chord at the same time. Are you sure you want a minor scale over a major chord (with the same root)?

Ok, I see it's a specific thing with Blues. No that's not currently possible but will have a look if it can be enabled with a switch or something.

As said the chord must currently be included with the scale. Otherwise it leads to very dissonant clashes that are difficult to avoid.

Synfire would only allow the rendering of common tones under the blue figures...the A and C notes. Thats it in this case, nothing else. If i had an extremely dense figure over this F Major chord, Synfire would render only pentatonic scale tones wit the a strong anchor. Over the time span of the piece, the idea of the pentatonic minor is not obscured by the melody, its been completely pentatonic the whole time with the flavor of natural minor chords here and there to add variety.

I again suggest the implementation of true polytonality, i.e. more than just one global Harmony parameter. 

Got it.

An extra layer is indeed what we need here. We don't want all instruments to mess with blue notes all the time because that would lead to terrible random clashes. We want only few select phrases to do that, e.g. a piano or guitar melody or whatever solo instrument we have.

Example: Top is base layer for all instruments. Bottom is extra "Melody" layer (1 ) for improvisation with bluesy blue notes on pentatonic scales. That layer is assigned to these phrases. You can split a piano phrase, for example, in melody and chords to separate them harmonically this way.

(don't try yet, requires next build to work)

Here's what the extremely simple vanilla progression may sound like (mp3)

Ok, but the polytonality extension should be as generalized as possible and not just a solution for the topic discussed here. 

What is discussed in this thread is actually just a special case: The harmonization of a melody or pattern with chords outside the underlying scale. However, there are numerous other polytonality concepts and I suspect that Synfire in its current version would hardly be applicable to most of them. Maybe a little vacation reading:

Link to Amazon

You can have a look and think about which of these concepts could be implemented with Synfire. Personally, I can't say that such experimental concepts excite me any more; a lot of it looks interesting on paper, but doesn't sound particularly convincing. But at the end of the day, that's always subjective. 

Thanks for the link.

The current polytonality feature can be used much more broadly, not only for this special case. You can superimpose any chords (not necessarily related) and set any vertical scales (next build). Whatever theory you have in mind needs to be translated to superimposition. That covers a pretty wide range.

There are no scripted automatisms with fancy names yet.  Similarly there are not yet automatisms for chords like tritone substitution. If there is enough interest, it should be no problem to add them.

I agree that listening experience trumps theory hands down. There's so much cool sounding jazz theory out there. When you listen to examples however it sounds like 1940 (not bad, just no surprise). That's why I more and more resort to "just glue something together and listen".

Im going to try the polytonality feature for this. 

A new build is online now (#4) that supports vertical scale selection for superimposed chords. Layer tab on the parameter inspector.

On the Progression page, create a layer "Melody" and assign a minor chord and pentaminor scale where you want to play pentaminor over the major chord in the "Base" layer.

Assign the "Melody" layer to solo phrases using the Layer parameter.

Ahhhh beautiful. This is the sound I was looking for. Im pretty, many genres could appreciate this. Thanks team.