Counterpoint in SFP

Thanks!

I am interested what the is the best workflow for this, so ..with snapshot container or copy container ?
In counterlines(point), it can be that harmony plays a role, say .. for some bars the 2 played instrument notes are harmony notes.. i do want to do this too in SFP.

I can open both phrase editors at the same time and than chance some symbol position ..when is a part of the 2 line following a serie of harmony notes?...how to get this harmony in SFP? 
Say i have two unisons lines from a violin I and violin II for 8 bar phrase and in the second four bars i let the violins play harmony notes together.

I start first wit a copy procedure for the second melodyline and than chance the copy ... how to get the right interval between the note symbols ?

Possible, but i am also looking at the traditional way of doing counterpoint in SFP ..and the porblem is how to get the needed intervals in the phrase editor

Can you find a explanation in the manual how the phrase editor symbols for a horizontal scale  are organized ?

If i use the symbol tool ( take the Example Melody.mid included in SFP amd import this )

Perhaps we can find out how it is build up, because i can't find it in the manual.
I think when it are only  "diatonic" note symbols that is the major scale
There are 7 white keys in a keyboard octave  and there is one solid horizontal line??

The fact that we try to reasoning how it works.. it is wrong way of working when it is not documented
I can't follow your reasoning for now.. i am sorry. 

Even when this software cost almost nothing say 10 Euro  .. you can't figure out how it exactly works..its useless ( for me) and too expensive for nothing. 

Well i get the idea that you also not know exactly  how it works in the phrase editor.. in fact it is not that difficult if there is a good written manual or at least a video
I want to do counterpoint on the standard way so i chance the symbolposition of the second melodyline, but i think the bold vertical line is the rootnote of the scale in the phrase editor..so say form a diatonic scale like  Cmajor you can go up  7 diatonic interval to start again on a c major scala ( only a octave higher)

A negative diatonic line ( -1 symbol)  under the bold scale line is the b key
Chromatic..when you use the black keys ( as you know already)

Well that is my idea about this phrase editor ;)..how about this?
Note: if this is correct, than you know what keyboard key is used for a vertical note symbol  position , say in case of C major ( the most simple scale).. with this you can ascertain the right interval  for the counterpoint symbol note

Thanks!

It should be better if this information is included in chapter of the phrase editor itself : how is the phrase editor working?
I do want to use a melodic line for counterpoint and this is a light blue symboltype ( symbol for horizontal global scale )
A chord is the green symbol type..so makes it sense that it has other symbol type colors too ?

It seems to me that SFP recognizes a chord in the midi import data and gives it his symboltype :  chord ( = green dot color)

Realtime recording of chords must also give a green symboltype ? (  i hope..;) )
Why should SFP give the chord a lightblue color ? 
Do i miss something here ;)

Ok, but you use a broken chord .. not a chord where all 3 tones sounds at the same time.
If you use a block (default) chord ( 3 notes played at the same time) than it has only one color :  a green color.
There is no block chord what has 3 colors ;)

A broken chord can be seen in your example as a chord and as a melodic line here and as a arpeggio too.

Back to counterpoint with a melodic line( Cantus firmatus)  and add Ctp, luckily is my imported 9 bar piano midi line recognised as a lichtblue symboltype..:).So now must it not be difficult to deduce from a given melodic line in a random scale the counterpointline?
Perhaps there is a favour for a particular sscale for counterpoint writing?..or maybe i doesn't matter for SFP..it handles all..that mean that i can deal with it
 

Thanks!

I think, the lines at the phrase editor should not be mistaken for staff lines. They are just there to give you some orientation.

A good point to fix misinterpretations .

The lines in th e phrase editor represent  to a step of a scale
If you take the Cmajor scale as example, than the white keys on the midi keyboard are the lines, say for one octave.
If you take a chromatic scale for Cmajor ( all 12 keys of your keyboard)  are the lines, so i predict from this that there are 12 lines if you play de C chromatic scale in one octave

It depends how many steps a scale has..how many lines in the phrase editor is present.

Probably there exists one scale of 5 notes : e-g-b-e-g  what do you think that the phrase editor lines are the staff lines too.

Ok you record a midi pianomelody line of 9 bar in Cmajor .. each symbol notes represents a particulair scale step
How to to get the right counterpoint interval easy on every scale step ? 

It should be handy if SFP gives the right interval information when i select 2 symbol notes vertical at the same time in the parameter inspector... so i can easy see what counterpointinterval i must apply.
It knows all from the two notes: scale, pitch

Note: the pitch in the parameter inspector is "relative" ..when it is absolute? ( when it plays the notes on the scale itself..i think)

So i new counterpointinterval feature in SFP !..and add also the information about the used scale type in the parameter inspector too of th ephrase editor !

------------------------------------------
In Cubase i can make 2 tracks and show them together in the keyeditor: one is active and the other track is greyed out and i can toggle between them 
As example i had a counterline of a octave doubling
Say if i do want to do this in SFP with a copy container
Gonna be difficult for doing this in SFP, because sfp shows  only relative pitches AND cannot also combine two container notedata in one phrase editor  
For counterpoint you do need two separate note symbol lines too..it seems that counterpoint doing in SFP is not possible( to examine that ..that was my goal of this thread ) 

Thanks!

But for counterpoint i am only looking to 2 melodic lines in SFP.
I start with a basic melodyline in a container and make a copycontainer or a snapshot? ( but that is not the point here )

SFP must me offer the possibility to construct from a start melody some countermelodies..i am not interested for now in the harmony between the 2 interwooven melodies..(that comes later :))

Suppose i import two melodies from my DAW ( 2 counterpointmelodies ) in SFP, than  it seems to me that the distance between the 2 melody lines (note symbols ) stays the same, regardless the underlying harmony? 

Most of the time, but not always. The progression may transpose individual symbols to match the voice leading constraints.

I was afraid of that..the voiceleading is controlling the melodic lines

So 2 countermelody lines in a single segment  .. but both the 2 lines must have different instruments too.

No parameter options to apply as a seperate track .. i think it is very limited on this way the counterpoint 

One can say this is the price you pay than for not to be able of manipulate counterpoint exactly with the seperate form and content concept in SFP
Big brother harmony is always pulling on the notes :)

That's nice to get some inspiration from someone else.
Here is video what is explaining how to build up the counterlines, hopefully is the same result also possible in SFP

http://www.zerospec.com/testmap/counterpoint.mp4 

Yes, i am really curious to see this in a workflow video how you did it ! ; )

I am not a expert in counterpoint and want to learn more about it
Probably have you heard of  Johannus Fux with his species of counterpoint ?
Counterpoint start with one note against one note, and becomes more difficult by using  2 notes against the Cantus firmatus( source melody ) with one note  and so on ...( if i am correct )
Counterlines with 4 classical instruments is not unusual too.. you start with a source melody

 Would give much better results, if the producer would add some harmonic variation there. Maybe somebody should tell him, what kind of software he needs.

It is only a stringsection example of counterpoint of a whole tutorial

A more harmonical movement is perhaps not immidiately necessarry for this 9 bar string section. so it can stay as it is 
Perhaps if you try this too in SFP , despite the harmonic influences by SFP ... you can get a good result?

That means that you  can take track for every instrument  

Dying Adonis...what about flipping..how does it work?

indeed interesting to do this..and all depends how you want to have the behaviour off the second melodyline against the source melody for counterpoint

Do you want to have a :

- countersubject .. it is complete different melodic theme

- Call and Response

- Variations  

- Unison/octave doubling

- etc

Flipping seems to be usable for a " countersubject" ?

Well it depends also what kind of counterpoint you want