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How do i get a snapshot from one instrument in a rootcontainer?

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Suppose i do have a rootcontainer with 4 instruments


From one of these 4 instruments, i do want to use one instrument for  a snapshot container for some measures.


How to do this?


Mi., 04.01.2012 - 01:19 Permalink

Place a new container below the rootcontainer at the measures you want, select the instrument in the new container that you want to be "snapshotted" and do a snapshot of every parameter of this instrument (i.e. figure, transpose, rhythm, and so on) that contains a vector in the rootcontainer (parameter indicator is dark-green shining for these parameters, after snapshotting the indicator changes to light-green). 

Or:

Make a snapshot of all instruments in the new container (Container >> Make snapshot) and clear the parameters of the instruments you do not want to have snapshotted.

Mi., 04.01.2012 - 11:53 Permalink

Place a new container below the rootcontainer at the measures you want, select the instrument in the new container that you want to be "snapshotted" and do a snapshot of every parameter of this instrument (i.e. figure, transpose, rhythm, and so on) that contains a vector in the rootcontainer (parameter indicator is dark-green shining for these parameters, after snapshotting the indicator changes to light-green). 


 


Thanks!...but it does not seems to work anymore in this latest build of SFP (i use a demo version) to snapshot every parameter to get one instrument phrase at the measures you want


It works now more easy! : you can make a snaphot of one or more instruments or you can make one snapshot for all instruments at once


- container -> select a instrument and double click on the figure ..menu: Do you want to make a snapshot of Figure and edit it ?-


-snapshotcontainer -> all instruments


 



Or:


Make a snapshot of all instruments in the new container (Container >> Make snapshot) and clear the parameters of the instruments you do not want to have snapshotted.


So with double click on a figure in a container and choose the number of instruments for a snapshot there is no need to clear parameters


 


Do you use a old version of SFP? 


 

Mi., 04.01.2012 - 12:43 Permalink

Thanks!...but it does not seems to work anymore in this latest build of SFP (i use a demo version) to snapshot every parameter to get one instrument phrase at the measures you want

Yes, I just figured out the same and I think that's a bug. I will open a new thread at the "synfire 1.5 beta discussion" section.

 

It works now more easy! : you can make a snaphot of one or more instruments or you can make one snapshot for all instruments at once


- container -> select a instrument and double click on the figure ..menu: Do you want to make a snapshot of Figure and edit it ?-

 

Notice that it is not always enough just to make a snapshot of the figure of an instrument. To get a complete copy of the phrase of an instrument you have to make snapshots of all parameters which are related to that instrument and in which you have entered a vector in the rootcontainer. For example if you have made modifications with the parameter "Transpose" or if you changed the rhythm of the figure with the parameter "Rhythm" you have to make snapshots on these parameters as well.

Mi., 04.01.2012 - 13:42 Permalink

Notice that it is not always enough just to make a snapshot of the figure of an instrument. To get a complete copy of the phrase of an instrument you have to make snapshots of all parameters which are related to that instrument and in which you have entered a vector in the rootcontainer. For example if you have made modifications with the parameter "Transpose" or if you changed the rhythm of the figure with the parameter "Rhythm" you have to make snapshots on these parameters as well.


But a snapshot is non-destructive editing ..so you can chance the rhythm or pitch of an instrument in the snapshot, but before this is possible i must add the 2 parameters transpose and pitch to the instrument snapshot? 

Mi., 04.01.2012 - 14:56 Permalink

But a snapshot is non-destructive editing ..so you can chance the rhythm or pitch of an instrument in the snapshot, but before this is possible i must add the 2 parameters transpose and pitch to the instrument snapshot? 

No, of course you can handle each parameter individually. If you want to change the rhythm you just have to enter a vector into the parameter "rhythm" and don't have to care about the parameter "transpose" or any other parameter. All I wanted to say is that if you changed any parameter of an instrument in the rootcontainer, for example "transpose", and you want to make a complete snapshot of the instrument, you also have to make a snapshot on this parameter. If a parameter is empty at the rootcontainer you don't have to take care about it.

Whether you have to make a snapshot of a parameter or not depends on what result you want to get or what you want to do with the new container. I give you an example:

Assuming you have entered a figure for an instrument (let's call it "piano") into the rootcontainer and you entered a vector into the parameter rhythm to change the rhythm of this figure. Now you place a new container (let's call him container A) below the rootcontainer and make a snapshot only on the parameter "figure" of the piano (and not on the parameter "rhythm"). Assuming further that you now drag the container A elsewhere in the arrangement and place it below another container (let's call him container B). Now: If this container B contains another vector for the parameter "rhythm" of the piano, the piano will play the figure of container A with the (inherited) rhythm of container B.

In contrast: If you had made snapshots of both parameters "figure" and "rhythm", the rhythm of the piano would not change, no matter where you drag the container A.   

Do., 05.01.2012 - 12:58 Permalink

This post continues the thread that started at the "Synfire and Pro Tools as a DAW":

Ok i understand that your workflow start with a empty rootcontainer?
Well than for arranging there are 2 main workflows ..working with a filled instrument 
rootcontainer or not. 

Yes I start with an empty rootcontainer for the reason that I mentioned. But I can't say that  this is a "main workflow", it's just my personal workflow. When I was new with Synfire (not so long ago) of course I also started with the rootcontainer. Later I wanted to add something at the beginning of the arrangement. So, what to do now? I can not drag the rootcontainer. That's why I now start from a movable container.

Suppose you use a midifile as basis for your arrangment by a  import , than you pull out the instrumentphrases by hand from the rootcontainer and get seperate instrumentphrases ?( it seems to also handy if SFP can do this for me )

That's easy. Just make a complete snapshot from the rootcontainer into a new container which has the same length as the rootcontainer. That makes a full copy of all parameters, phrases and so on of the rootcontainer. After that snapshot I usually clear the phrases from the rootcontainer manually (otherwise the phrases of the rootcontainer for example will be played on places where I do not want them to play). 
But again: That all is just my personal workflow. If you want to start with the rootcontainer, then do so. I encourage you to make your own experiences.

It seems that for instance that the Chanel no 5 arrangement demo shows inherited instruments in the rootcontainer from container s on top of it 

I can't say anything about the demo arrangements since I did not even open them. I immediately started with my own ideas and figured out how the programm works by playing around. I cannot learn from example projects.

The idea is from this workflow that all instrumentphrases can be moved freely..on this way it looks on a traditional DAW ( than has every instrument his own container lane and than there are no containers with 
different instruments on a same lane like it is when you work with a rootcontainer filled with instruments )

Yes, if you really want this you can also do it: You can give every instrument his own container, arrange them one above the other and simulate the look and feel of a traditional DAW this way. But that is not what I do. I start with a basic musical idea which will be stored as a whole (all instruments) in one container. Then it comes to make variations. Therefore I make a snapshot of the container as a whole or in parts and do some experimentation with different parameter-settings, phrase-manipulations, cascading containers, and so on.
This all depends on the kind of music you want to produce. If you just want to produce a pop song with a linear structur (i.e. intro, verse, brigde, chorus) you can do that by creating the necessary amount of containers, give them the appropriate names (intro, verse,..) and place them one after the other in the arrangement window. Then you have the same situation as you know it from Harmony Navigator: You have one rootcontainer on the top (which also exists in Harmony Navigator but is invisible there: it plays the accompaniment) and the containers for intro, verse, and so on below it. Then you can work the same way like in HN and just take advantage of the extended phrase editing features of Synfire. But you can do much more with it and get much more interesing results if you try to work in a more experimental way.

Do., 05.01.2012 - 14:27 Permalink

Yes i lke to continue with a empty rootcontainer arrangement



That's easy. Just make a complete snapshot from the rootcontainer into a new container which has the same length as the rootcontainer. That makes a full copy of all parameters, phrases and so on of the rootcontainer. After that snapshot I usually clear the phrases from the rootcontainer manually (otherwise the phrases of the rootcontainer for example will be played on places where I do not want them to play). 
But again: That all is just my personal workflow. If you want to start with the rootcontainer, then do so. I encourage you to make your own experiences.


@supertonic came up with this




Juuku has a very good understanding of the Synfire paradigm. Leaving the root container empty is a good idea. You can put all volume, pan and similar global parameters in the root container. Andre should create more examples with an empty root container.



Perhaps can this be automated in SFP that the instruments are pulled out of the rootcontainer


Synfire can do that: Copy the root container and paste it into itself. Then delete all phrases from the root container (select each instrument and "Clear").
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I can't say anything about the demo arrangements since I did not even open them. I immediately started with my own ideas and figured out how the programm works by playing around. I cannot learn from example projects.


I agree with you.. don't read the manual at first and try to figure out things by yourself..is possible as learning experience, but it must supported by backgroundinformation in the manual 


well i do have the situation that there is a empty rootcontainer and a copied rootcontainer or snapshotted rootcontainer for building up a arrangement


How now further? with the copied or snapshotted rootcontainer?



 I start with a basic musical idea which will be stored as a whole (all instruments) in one container. Then it comes to make variations. Therefore I make a snapshot of the container as a whole or in parts and do some experimentation with different parameter-settings, phrase-manipulations, cascading containers, and so on.


 


Ok this contaner with the content of the rootcontainer can now be freely moved
It is time to practice this all in SFP so @Mark Styles and me do now understand more of SFP..i hope