Posted
TWO issues
I know I've brought a similiar situation up before. I like to work, sometimes by starting a project in Logic Pro, and then moving to SFP. For the most accurate results, I have to import each of Logic's midi tracks one at a time in phrase import. This way song is the same, and I can create additional tracks, or add notes to existing tracks quickly. I then import back into Logic to mix.
Sometimes I get the file to sound exactly the same as in Logic, other times it's radically different. SFP may still have an issue with 'no end of note'. When I import a song, every note lists in the console as "no end of note", (hundreds and hundreds of times this pops up, as if it believes every note does not have an end of note command..
Perhaps I'm dating myself here. I worked for company #5 Voyetra when the MIDI format was formalized, and I remember the boss talking about end of note commands to the programmer. I think as time went on, most DAWs just switched to a ON clock count and figured the hardware would know enough to shut voice off, with out receiving a specific note off command.
What happens in SFP, is some tracks come out with the lengths very stretched out, on top of each other really. The hardware quickly gets overloaded and quickly you have the "BIG CHORD".
I'm sure a number of people would work in the DAW - SFP - DAW aspect, if it was easier.
ISSUE 2
To speed up import and voice assignment:
I propose their be a GM switch when importing, telling SPF that the program # it finds is GM, and to assign catagory, name, and program automatically. This would be a huge time savior,
Unfortunately cause I use Logic with hardware, the Clones are of little use to me..
I spent about 45 minutes importing/exporting from Logic-SFP-Logic, making sure I have the same tracks with the same program. This is a very tedious process, but I see no alternative.
Thanx..
So., 05.08.2012 - 00:17 Permalink
ISSUE 2
To speed up import and voice assignment:
I propose their be a GM switch when importing, telling SPF that the program # it finds is GM, and to assign catagory, name, and program automatically. This would be a huge time savior,
Unfortunately cause I use Logic with hardware, the Clones are of little use to me..
I spent about 45 minutes importing/exporting from Logic-SFP-Logic, making sure I have the same tracks with the same program. This is a very tedious process, but I see no alternative.
Hi Mark
If you import General Midi files (GM) , than with the device description : internal Gm synth you can use a internal Midi 1 port to connect with a General Midi Vsti.
I do this with Cubase 6.5 (latest version) and the Halion Sonic Se what has a GM soundset too and HN2
So., 05.08.2012 - 10:52 Permalink
Thanx Janamdo. LogicPro on Apple uses Audio Units, which is not a problem. A very big problem, is that two updates ago Mac OSX, has lowered the volume of GM to the point of unaudible.. I have to turn the gain up completely to full, hiss drowns out the GM sound, and God forbid I play a keyboard or virtual instrument it would blow my speakers up.
General Midi on MacPro's these days is about useless, I can't find where there is a volume control the internal GM engine.
Not having a viable GM source is a serious drawback. Can anyone reccomend a GM substitute for Mac OSX?.
At this point, I'd be happy to workk that way for a while, since Logic with AU's can't use SFP clones to drive external hardware.
If anyone has a solution, I'd love to hear it...
Thanx.
So., 05.08.2012 - 12:31 Permalink
Not having a viable GM source is a serious drawback. Can anyone reccomend a GM substitute for Mac OSX?.
Yes, perhaps the Halion Sonic Vsti from Steinberg has a GM mode?
I bought Cubase 6.5 for half prize( educational version) and it is included the Halion Sonic SE with a GM mode
Perhaps you can consider to move to Cubase 6.5?
It has now expression map and a note expression feature so it is a quality DAW, but it still a lot of money for you
So., 05.08.2012 - 13:05 Permalink
I believe Vsti's are only for PC's, they will not run on Mac. I think Cubase uses Vst's I've been using Logic for more than 20 years. I really don't want to change, although I may have too. I don't know if I have enough brain cells left to learn a new DAW.. Not something I look forward too.
But the problem with the GM instrument seems to be inherently in the OSX. I swear it dropped 90% from previous versions of OSX. So whether I'm playing a midi from the finder or inside of a program it's volume is WAY too soft.
I've googled for the issue, but find no mention of it. Disk utilities tell me everything is fine with my computer. It's one of life's mysteries, (and misery for me) until I find a better work around.
The real issue is I need to have the clones able to drive external MIDI hardware, but I believe that fault lies with Logic, not SFP.
So., 05.08.2012 - 13:19 Permalink
Hi mark,
It's not you, you aren't going insane, my apple gm instrument went really quiet a couple of updates ago too. Haven't blown my monitors up as a result of it, but I do now have ringing in one of my ears (well its more like a scream) after forgetting id altered the phones levels and starting a dj set!
So., 05.08.2012 - 15:44 Permalink
Enough brain cells is not the problem..normally it is endless ;)
It is not that difficult Cubase 6.5..it has similarities with logic pro
You can try out a free month http://www.steinberg.net/en/products/cubase/trial_version.html for Mac
But it seems that the Vsti also running on Mac ? or has Cubase6.5 for Mac no Vsti ?
It is very easy to play GM files in Cubase with inbuilt GM for Halion Sonic SE ( it is a special version for Cubase 6.5 inbuilt and optimised for 4 cores)..i don't know for the Halion Sonic regular Vsti version
No ..it is not that trivial for projectfiles, because i open Cubase projectfiles with midi data ..so i must setup all the time the Halion Sonic Se.
But for imported Midifiles i do see no problem..Halion Se can be setup and than the midi files can be imported.
So., 05.08.2012 - 15:57 Permalink
A very big problem, is that two updates ago Mac OSX, has lowered the volume of GM to the point of unaudible..
I'm surprised, does this issue still exist? Cognitone announced some time ago that this problem is fixed (with SFP version 1.5.5). Have you recently tried it again?
If I remember correctly, at that time when the problem existed they gave the advice to use the DLS Music Device (comes with Garage Band I think) instead of the Quick Time GM synth.
Steinberg's Halion Sonic is available also in Audio Unit format and should work with Logic. But it would be certainly a kind of overkill to purchase Halion Sonic just to get a GM synth (and I'm not sure if it has also a GM mode like Halion Sonic SE).
So., 05.08.2012 - 16:59 Permalink
It seems that every GM file is recognized by SFP when i loaded this "GM"arrangement in SFP, but it must be regocnizable for a switch.?
The only thing for Mark is get the GM device file loaded in the SFP sound setup ..it must than also work for the GM synth he uses..seems to me ( condition : only working with GM sounds! ..so his SFP arrangement is a than GM arrangement)
Note: Perhaps a idea as Mark proposed to make a switch.. only GM midi files imported will automatically switch to the GM device setup in SFP
So SFP must get information from the GM midi file that it is a standard midi file and loaded than automatically the GM device setup
The GM midi files are limited in use these days..for instance the classical midi files don't have classical midi articulations.
With Cubase 5/6.5 is it possible to add articulations/dynamics in a lane in the key editor and using a Vsti symphonic soundset in SFP ?
It is indeed very easy to use GM files in Cubase 6.5 with Halion Sonic Se..drop the GM file in Cubase arrangement screen and it is ready to play ( it has a maximum of 16 midi tracks )
It suprizes me this GM classical Midi file ..it has 25 instruments.. so there is not a own audiochannel for each instruments possible..so there is less possible with for and background instruments positioning
So., 05.08.2012 - 21:41 Permalink
Hi Mark. An issue with missing note ends has been fixed with 1.5.14. This may also fix the problem you describe. Give it a try when it becomes available.
I spent about 45 minutes importing/exporting from Logic-SFP-Logic, making sure I have the same tracks with the same program. This is a very tedious process, but I see no alternative.
Use the same sound names, Logic region names and programs. That will help Synfire match the peviously used sounds exactly. Use the "Import with my private sounds" option.
You can load the GM Synth into Logic or the Audio Engine. It is the DLSMusicDevice AudioUnit. That will give you back full volume.
So., 05.08.2012 - 23:54 Permalink
Thanx. I forgot about the DSLMusic Device.. Will check out later. Logic also has an AU Net Receive an AU Net audio file player under AU/Generator.
Could this somehow work with clones.. I remember many years ago using it with another app and Logic at same time. Not sure if it used IAC track or not.
When I import with my private sounds, SFP still switches some to shared rack, which of course I have to change. The other issue is when I privatize, I can't switch directly to Tyros port 1, I have to select Tyros port 2 (the front panel of T4 cannot access anything on port 2, It is strictly for Sequencer or outside DAW. Every parameter must be addressed by CC's or sysex).
So I then have to switch to 1. It would be nice if SFP was more lenient in th order it selected sounds, Changing MIDI channel must be done first, otherwise catagory and sound go away. I would still love it, if there was a "USE GM or USE MSB/LSB/PROG import. It of course would be up to the user to assign the tracks to the port going to correct hardware device. But it would be a huge time and frustration saver.
Thanx.
Mo., 06.08.2012 - 00:36 Permalink
Janamdo:
Thanx for your advise, no disrespect meant, but I have used Logic since it's Emagic Days Version 2. I know all of it's features, inside and out. I have mastered it's very obtuse scoring editor, which I rely upon heavily. I make serious use of it's convoluted 'Transfomation' functions, and it's convoluted Environment.
I really cannot and will not give up the time and investment I have with Logic, to accomodate Synfire.. I will and am attempting to figure out work arounds to get the smoothest workflow between the two problems.
It's getting there, if I could get the clones to work with external midi hardware, (can't be done with Logic now), that would solve my problems.
Again, I don't mean to be sounding arguementative, but I can't afford to switch DAW applications at this point.
Keep giving your advise though, I always read and reflect upon it..
Thanx
Mo., 06.08.2012 - 15:49 Permalink
Mark, you can load DSLMusicDevice in a drone and have Synfire control it. You can do all that from the instrument inspector in Synfire. Add a new drone to Logic first. Or use the Engine for it.
The other issue is when I privatize, I can't switch directly to Tyros port 1, I have to select Tyros port 2
Using the same port for shared and private purposes at the same time is a problem. You only have a single synth that you can not easily use for both, unless you make it shared (but then you lose the per project static channel assignments you want).
Changing MIDI channel must be done first, otherwise catagory and sound go away.
The "Channel" is the physical place your sound is edited in. Imagine your device as a box with 16 smaller boxes inside. Selecting the channel means going to one of these boxes. If you switch back to the previous channel, that sound's properties will appear again.
I would still love it, if there was a "USE GM or USE MSB/LSB/PROG import. It of course would be up to the user to assign the tracks to the port going to correct hardware device.
The port assignment would be easy, ok. The custom CC, playing ranges, and category settings would however be lost. It is more hassle to redo all these details compared to picking a known sound from the browser.