Synfire 2.0 Preview

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csfigu
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Hi Andre,

I do not want to be one of those people obsessed with updates always asking for the next one, but is there a place where we can check the roadmap and see a timeline of expected 2.0 arrival?

Kind Regards,

Carlos

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janamdo
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Last seen vor 8 Stunden 49 Minuten

 Carlos..when it is ready you can see it ..haha 

 

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andre
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I'm sorry you still have to wait. Just wanted to let you know things are going extremely well here. During the past several weeks, I went down a number of rabbit holes, many more than anticipated, along endless fractal lines, entering into a wonderland that is beyond my original imagination. This will be HUGE. I don't have a penchant for hyperbole, but this really works out so well, so musically sound, I'm sure it will knock your socks off!

Cognitone took a big risk investing in uncharted territory that is unpredictably costly to explore. The KIM language had only vague contours at first, and it could not be evaluated without actually implementing it to 90%. We put all eggs in one basket, for more than three years now, so it is a big relief that my intuition finally proved right.

As always, the last 5% take the most time, but we're almost there now. There is a lot of room for future enhancement, but I think it is important to make a cut at some point and let real world users get their hands dirty. Can't wait to see all of you extract a hell of fresh music out of it ;-)

We're getting closer by the day ...

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Ruchir
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Last seen vor 15 Stunden 58 Minuten

What are you not telling us Andre? Is KIM sentient? Will it just take over my music, or my toaster and TV as well? Should I get my EMF pulse ready?

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janamdo
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As i may believe it all , then Synfire is now becoming revolutionary and not from this world. 
Fantastic!

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xhevahir
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I can't wait for KIM to tell me, NO.

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Ruchir
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Hi Andre, with the VST 3 support, will a single device be able to address multiple ports of the VST 3 instruments. Current limitation with VST 2 of course is one port and 16 channels. Thanks in advance.

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andre
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Ok, I could no longer wait. Had to make this short 5 minutes preview for you right now. It's really only a quick glance for first impressions. No voice over yet, because it's late here already and I really have to get a break ;-)

At the beginning, I demonstrate how rhythm is generated, which is the basis of phrase synthesis. After a brief look into generating harmony, I do a few quick clicks through different phrases that are 100% KIM output. I'll go into more detail in a follow-up video later.

A KIM Factory basically works like a modular synth, only that it generates phrases instead of sound. After a while you get used to the controls and operate them much like ADSR, MOD, WAVEFORM etc. Once you have a setting that generates a good phrase, you can expect every 3rd to 5th click to produce a wonderful variant of it full of surprises and inspiration. After a hundred clicks or so, your head starts spinning and it begins to dawn on you that you are about to get lost in music. That's when the "Keep Only Favorites" function comes in handy. It deletes everything but the phrases you liked. A big relief that not only frees up megabytes of memory, but also hands you a collection of unique phrases that have never seen this planet before ...

Happy Holidays!

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processing
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Looks incredible Andre. Truly amazing work. Enjoy your break & Happy Holidays to you! 

 

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duderanch
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Beautiful! Happy Holidays!

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richardbartlett
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I always knew you would bring Synfire and us to this place! Congratulations on what you have accomplished with 2.o. Truly amazing how the possibilities for endless creative inspiration open up! Merry Christmas to you and your loved ones!

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Godin
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Hello Andre,

you can be really very satisfied with what you showed us. I am already very excited about what you will be able to show us more.

Do you plan to be able to determine settings for the variation of the velocity when creating rhythms?

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ChristianM-Orchestra
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Last seen vor 1 Jahr 3 Wochen

Good :-)
Are Synfire 2.0 and Engine multi-core?

Christian

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xhevahir
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I'd be very surprised if the new version does much more parallel processing than before. It isn't something you can just add to a program, like another feature.

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ChristianM-Orchestra
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I know, I do this quite often ;-)

Christian

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andre
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Synfire does parallel computing already, albeit not on separate CPU cores. KIM doesn't need it. Smalltalk is an extremely fine-grained and huge network of objects. It isn't well suited for parallel number crunching. Since literally everything is an object, including classes, compilers and code (Oh, and nil is an instance of class UndefinedObject, so in Smalltalk even the null pointer responds to messages), you would have to deal with very complex synchronization challenges. Aside from bulk import of MIDI files, there is little use for multi-core. That the Audio Engine runs on a separate core is already very helpful.

Smalltalk's strengths are with knowledge representation, inferencing, huge network-like data structures, generic algorithms, non-local returns (backtracking), and building compilers/interpreters for new languages like KIM. Stuff other languages do not support. Much of this extreme dynamism would even be slower if implemented in C++ due to its memory management.

(sorry for the technical gobbledygook, but as some of you are IT pros, everyone else please forgive me)

Do you plan to be able to determine settings for the variation of the velocity when creating rhythms?

Yes, that's already done. Velocity has huge influence on a phrase.

with the VST 3 support, will a single device be able to address multiple ports of the VST 3 instruments

Good point, I'll have to check that.

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ChristianM-Orchestra
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If I put AI constraints aside, for programming language limitations, I run multiple instances of the same app in the terminal, which converse with the main application (like Engine and Synfire). This also has many advantages on the RAM side, because I kill the instances as soon as I no longer need them ...

Christian

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andre
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I run multiple instances of the same app

Absolutely. That could be one way of doing long running heavy-duty work like mass MIDI file import. It's still a challenge to do right.

Ok, so now this will be the last preview video this year:

There's one mistake in it that bugs me: Of course, if you want a basso ostinato, you'll choose blue (horizontal) symbols and push them to lower playing range. In the video, I left it with bass symbols, which however follow the chord progression.

As we are at it, for lack of a better term, Ostinato is used very broadly here, meaning the repeated occurrence of the same pitch. Although, depending on symbol type, this will not always lead to the same pitch.

Hopefully everyone of us will have a better 2021. I'm certainly looking forward!

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Ruchir
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Thanks Andre

I see a lot of use potential for the re-use drag and drop parameters.

I think with this sort of approach, automation will be important. It should be possible to programmatically access the functions, to reduce clickage.

Have a well deserved happy new year when it comes!

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Brahamh1
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Man, I can't wait. Synfire has made me an incredibly good composer. It wouldn't have happened without Synfire. Thank you for all your hard work.

Brahamh

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tom11
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Why not giving us some (pre-)alpha release (with no support of course, as the software can change in any aspect in that stage), but this way we could install it on another computer and already benefit from the exciting new features ?

 

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SoundForSoul
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My vote goes for alpha/beta releases for those who are brave enough! :) And, why not, also for a special price for those early birds who'd like to support the update process :)

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smr
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If there is an alpha/beta release I will like to participate too. If there is licensing issue I don't mind converting my licence to ver 2 and use unstable pre release version. 

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Solaris
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VERY happy to see this update coming; after several years I'm still a synfire newbie (I was more distracted with sound design , synth and samplers than harmony/ melody)... my only request is to make sure the new release will be solid rhythmically as well (I mean timing wise), so groove will be "in the pocket" easily.

I'm playing with scaler 2 as well ; it is ok and straightforward to use mostly but I don't like fact melodies/ bass lines are mainly pattern based (melodies can be played following chords progressions) . Sundog is giving me more reward (and has some few common points with synfire)...

 

im stil watching the new synfire videos and impressed with what I see for the workflow simplification!

well done

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csfigu
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any new videos coming soon? :) 

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andre
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No video today, but audio: A proof-of-concept 100% synthetic performance, based on 3 phrases from a single KIM-generated phrase pool. This literally took me 30 minutes to make ;-) The challenge now is to make a host of simpler factories that suit styles like EDM, Pop, etc. But simplification is not the problem. I wanted to evaluate first, if it works also for more complex stuff.

Generated rhythm really cuts it. Are you prepared for 2.5 billion songs? (erm, rough estimate)

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csfigu
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Andre, it's impressive! Looking forward to taking on that challenge!... Q1? Spring?

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Brahamh1
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30 min? That's amazing!

Brahamh

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andre
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30 min? That's amazing!

To be clear, a week or so ago I played around like 10 minutes with the settings and got a few cool phrases. Yesterday I picked those up, dropped them in an arrangement, made a few minor tweaks (mostly nudging symbols up/down to improve the melody), bounced playback to disk -- violá.

This was fast only because I took the hunter & gatherer approach: See what crosses your path and make the best of it.

If you want to bend Synfire's output entirely to your will from the start, it will take a lot longer. That's for sure ;-)

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Ruchir
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That's excellent! Fast prototyping.

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