Synfire 2.0 Preview

ah, that makes sense! thank you, Andre. 

This is already version 2.0.1 build 48. It looks like a hard day's work. :)

I bought the 2.0 license at least 30 minutes ago, but it has not yet appeared in my iLok account. 

Am I doing something wrong, or is the system just understandably bogged down?

Thanks.

Yes, that was it. I had a hard time finding the license menu. They don't make it at all obvious. 

I encountered a problem trying to run 2.0. 

"E0042 Product Activation failed. Please reinstall the software."

But a reinstall just gets me to the same error code. Also, trying to uninstall doesn't work.

I'm using W11, which you stated may be problematic. So I'll wait for your new build and try again at that time, unless you have some other suggestion.

Edit FWIW: I just remembered that after my initial attempt to install 2.0, I saw a message that my config file was either missing or corrupt.

Hangdog Cat

The same thing happened to me although I'm on windows 10.

I have been able to fix it by uninstalling it from the path: Program Data/Cognitone/Setup/Synfire

I then reinstalled it after restarting the computer.

I hope it works for you

That worked! Thank you, from me and from the others it will no doubt help.

What a phantastic software. Thank you Andre.

I've had Kim work for me all day long although it's Sunday.

This it what she/it came up with: 

This tune was created by adding some factory phrases and morphing between those.

Enjoy!

What is the impression of the new test software for some users ?

Nice work, HiEnergy!

I remember when Harmony Navigator was first released in 2007/2008. Intriged by the many positive reports I read, I downloaded the demo and played around with it. But it was hard to find a scenario in which it would be useful for me. A couple of years later, Synfire was released. I downloaded the demo and was immediately overwhelemed by the steep learning curve. I couldn't make sense of the peculiar teminology or how it could be used to make music that was engaging. I gave it a couple more tries and eventually gave up on it. The learning curve and high price discouraged me from going any further with it. For several years I put my music making hobby to the side as I pursued other interests, but it was always in the back of my mind. I discovered Hi Energy's music prototyping tutorials as the result of a random search on YouTube. To my surprise, I noticed many of his tutorials were for Synfire.  I had assumed that Synfire had faded into obscurity. Hi Energy's tutorials made it seem more accessible than I had remembered. It was clear that music prototyping software had come a long way over the years. I made a visit to the Cognitone website to learn more about how Synfire evolved since my first time trying it and discovered on the forums that Andre was working on version 2.

I"ve been playing around with the KIM Facotories this entire weekend and I am beyond impressed. When Andre said that you will be swimming in music he wasn't being hyperbolic. There have been moments when after coming to a setting that I like (which isn't that hard), nearly every other phrase is amazing. The record for me was 8 straight phrases, each one better than the one before but all complementing each other. I've used just about all the other music prototyping software and none of them are as musical or ispiring as what I experienced this weekend. The last time I am across software that impressed me this much is the first time I used Jamstix (which I still consider one of the top 3 VSTs of all time). I've used nearly all the top music prototyping programs and none of them are close to Synfire.

TLDR: This is a bit of a ramble, but I wanted to post this for anyone who comes across this forum and is on the fence about aquiring Synfire. My advice to to take the plunge. Yes, there is still a bit of a learning curve (thought not nearly as much as my first encounter). But it's worth it. If you want to take a more "shallow" approach and just use it to generate phrases to inspire a new song without having to think too much about it, Synfire has you covered. But if you want to become a power user there are deeper paramaters that will allow you to take your music to another level.

In the meanwhile, I'm looking forward to more tutorials and music from Hi Energy. Very inspirational content.

Interesting, i am waiting on a new dongle (bending there he can't stand ;) ) , before i can buy the upgrade

Thanks for the  hint. Only deleting data in that directory  (+restart, reinstall) did not work for me, but uninstalling  synfire + delete everything in that directory + restart + reinstall worked fine :-)

You don't need a dongle. You can use the cloud activation. Works for me.

You can use the cloud activation. Works for me.

How do you do that (assuming you can with Pro).

I'm not seeing a counter that shows the elapsed time. 

Not the total amount of time I've spent using Synfire over the course of my life...that would be a huge number that I don't even want to think about. :)

But just the seconds and minutes of playback elapsed from the zero point of the project to the current play position.

Can anyone clue me in?

Yes, with pro.

check the menu in the ilok activation app (make sure you're using the latest version), there should be open a cloud instance or something similar.

Thanks , its no problem for me to use a dongle, because i don't use a notebook

That worked...thanks. I actually tried that previously, but I guess I clicked but didn't hold.

Thank you very much Ruchir.

It was not a big deal but it's more comfortable without the USB key.

I guess it requires an internet connection but it's not a problem in my case.

Was this possible in V1 too? Because if it was, then I'm an idiot in buying that thing ahaha
Oh well...

>> "[E0042] Product Activation failed. Please reinstall the software."

> I have been able to fix it by uninstalling it from the path: Program Data/Cognitone/Setup/Synfire

I ran into the same error. I tried following your advice by deleting the program folder Program Data/Cognitone/Setup/Synfire, then restarting, reinstalling and again restarting. That did not help, unfortunately, I still see the same error.

Did you perhaps mean something different than deleting the relevant folder when writing "I have been able to fix it by uninstalling it from the path"?

I am also on Windows 10. In case it makes a difference, I initially tried installing the software by being logged into a non-admin account GUI, but then from that account executing the setup process as an admin. Otherwise, I tried following the installation instructions (which are nicely detailed!) to the letter.

> Thanks for the  hint. Only deleting data in that directory  (+restart, reinstall) did not work for me, but uninstalling  synfire + delete everything in that directory + restart + reinstall worked fine :-)

Ah, indeed, first deinstalling the software with the installer before removing that folder now worked for me as well. When installing then again after the restart, the installation is no longer an update but an installation from scratch.

I actually didn't bother with that folder at all. I simply uninistalled the non-working V2 via the setup from the ZIP.

So, as you said, it was then an installation from scratch and not an update.

You don't need a dongle. You can use the cloud activation. Works for me.

Wow, Ruchir, what a great tip. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much Andre and the Cognitone team for the creation of Synfire 2, it is beautiful and amazing!

Andre and team

thank for the outstanding and one and only software out there. The wait was worth and I am having a blast. Hours and hours of logical entertainment

thank you and kudos for the vision Andre

Hi Andre,

2 important questions / requests:

1 - I would very much like to see a tutorial on how to tweak the factories to get usable figures. I tried to make new rather simple figures for piano and bass and to be honest could not produce anything usable. I was arranging a song of mine that was composed outside Synfire, so I am trying to get some results that fit into the song. Tried lots of different setting to no avail...

2 - When importing a midi file to harvest figures, I still struggle with the right settings, is there some instruction or example (even for version 1). I'd like to perfect this aspect of producing figures, because for now I think factories are not easily tamable.

By the way my song is in 3/4...

> By the way my song is in 3/4...

You did see that you can customise the meter of factories?

I must say that I first believed that I in Factories was able to import my own phrases so I could make B and C version of them but I think I have realise that is not possible!

yes of course, but even with 3/4 and BPM set I struggle to get something I can apply. I am sure the fault is on my poor training and knowledge, that is why I beg the forum for a tutorial!...

> I struggle to get something I can apply

Not sure whether I can help you, but if you want to create new material that somehow gels with some existing material, then rhythmic similarity might be a particular effective way. You can easily create new material with factories that use the rhythm of some of your musical ideas you already have for your song.

Just select the relevant figures in the arrangement view. You probably want to ensure your selection starts with the beginning of a bar (at least initially). Copy that material (e.g., right click and select copy, or use the short cut). Now head over to your factory, select the Step tab, and in the Step parameter input box (right term?) right click and paste. The parameter's "LED" lights up showing that it contains some content, and the newly generated factory results should use the rhythm you copied from your existing musical ideas.

As I said, not sure whether this really helps, but it might be a start. You can then fine tune further, e.g., by trying this procedure with different (sub-)rhythmic  ideas of your song, and of course fine-tune the pitch parameters further (e.g., perhaps simply randomise at first), etc.

Thanks Tanders I tested your suggestion and it works.

I tried this also, and agree that it works. Thanks for the tip...it makes Factories far more useful.

I notice that there are multiple Parameters that can be copied over from a Phrase into a Factory. Would it make sense for all such Parameters to be listed and accessible in one place in the Factory? This would be easier than clicking through several tabs to find the boxes into which Parameters can be copied.

Or maybe a check box would work. IOW if the box is checked then all eligible Parameters would be copied from a Phrase into the Factory settings. One could then tweak the settings from there.

Just thinking out loud.

ANDRE, PLEASE CAN YOU ANSWER TO ME TO MY TICKET Because I THINK YOUR TEAM HIDE IT, A MONTH I WAIT A ANSWER

TICKET #12825

THANKS ANDRE

Would it be possible in the next updates to have Synfire process already existing phrases with Kim, so that you can make variations of a given phrase (with some degree of randomess)?

I doubt that this reverse engineering (if understand you correctly) is fundamentally possible unless you want to generate "elevator music"

Given a phrase with reasonable complexity, it's close to a one-way-problem.

Certainly pattern recognition works but its limited as feature space in music is very large.

Hi SoundForSoul

This is from Tanders earlier in this thread!

Just select the relevant figures in the arrangement view. You probably want to ensure your selection starts with the beginning of a bar (at least initially). Copy that material (e.g., right click and select copy, or use the short cut). Now head over to your factory, select the Step tab, and in the Step parameter input box (right term?) right click and paste. The parameter's "LED" lights up showing that it contains some content, and the newly generated factory results should use the rhythm you copied from your existing musical ideas.

As I said, not sure whether this really helps, but it might be a start. You can then fine tune further, e.g., by trying this procedure with different (sub-)rhythmic  ideas of your song, and of course fine-tune the pitch parameters further (e.g., perhaps simply randomise at first), etc.

If interested in AI, check out deepminds Gato, seems to be the best out there at the moment in terms of AI although not sure its been used to generate music ,at least I cant find any examples.

Greetings everyone ⊂(◉‿◉)つ
Is there a date when Synfier 2.0 will be available to purchase?

And any eta for when 2.0 will be ready for Express-users? 

Back to Synfire Pro after a long journey with Rapid Composer. Wow its complex but version 2 is so much better and fuller.

However, as ever somethings I would expect to be easy are really hard.

Importing Midi files. Why do I need to go folder by folder. With a simple notebook I could just point it at root and then all the midi imported. It would be simple to implement but its just not there.

Today, I cant import anything but single files, the batch import is greyed out. I can select a file, see all the other files but no batch import option. No changes to the software but simply disabled (was fine with version 1). This has just stopped me in my tracks.

Andre I feel that you and cognitone are making a super effort the bring this to us. However, at the moment some things dont make sense.

Rewire is not supported by any DAWs now the Reason Studios stopped support but Live link allows the same functionality and easy implement with start/stop.

I'd love to work purely in Synfire 2 but then you only allow 1 bus fx and recomend then moving to a DAW. Why? you have almost a DAW would have, why limited to only 1 slot.

Drone support is still flaky, why not just have a drone which is just purely midi output, which automatically updates the drone on changes, but rock solid with no lost drones.  With Ableton link this would allow instant reflection in the DAW and allow to concrentrate on the composition.

Appreciation for your work and Synfire 2 pro!!!

Have a search on the forum here as I've shared a way to re-enable rewire support in the config file (I'm assuming you are using ableton due to your reference to live link).

< I'd love to work purely in Synfire 2 but then you only allow 1 bus fx and recomend then moving to a DAW. Why? you have almost a DAW would have, why limited to only 1 slot.

See my post : that is also what is meant to have the ability to add additional buses( group bus, mix bus, master bus) in Synfire itself to then not have to go to a DAW immediately.

Quick tip on additional aux buses etc.

I use Synfire in tandem with Vienna Ensemble Pro, which has these functionalities and integrates well with Synfire.

> additional aux buses

Similarily, I am using plugins that can host plugins. That allows your to combine in a plugin your instrument plugin with arbitrary effects, layer instrument plugins, use side chaining, route MIDI input to your sound fx plugins etc. That allows for considerable flexibility in routing.

For substituting an aux bus with a plugin hosting plugins, you might consider feeding it MIDI from multiple Synfire tracks via different MIDI channels. Using MIDI drones might be more straight forward, though.

For example, I am using Blue Cat's PatchWork and VCV Rack 2.0. There are also others, e.g., Plogue Bidule, MUX/MuLab (did not try that yet), Usine (this is a whole DAW, not tried though), and more...

> Synfire can't possibly compete with DAWs

I for one would definitely want the Synfire team to focus on unique Synfire features, if for the standard DAW features there are other ways (like using Vienna Ensemble Pro, plugins hosting plugins, drones and MIDI drones).