Posted
Is any other Synfire user perhaps using an MPE MIDI controller, like the Osmose, Ableton Push 3, the LinnStrument or any other of the many options out there? I am just curious to know.
Perhaps it might also be useful if Cognitone knows, in particular if at some stage in the medium term there is perhaps some closer integration between Synfire and standard DAWs available, as was suggested elsewhere, and considering that rather many if not most DAWs nowadays offer MPE compatibility.
Background
For more information on MPE in general, see the following links.
- https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/mpe-controllers
- https://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advice/mpe-midi-polyphonic-expression
Context
These days, I tend to use primarily an MPE controller (Osmose), because of the superb expressivity. A single MPE patch for me is basically like several different traditional synthesizer patches wrapped into one and with the ability to seamlessly morph between all of them (nicely controllable by just playing with the keyboard keys, even polyphonically). I even like to use additional expressive MIDI controllers at the same time (e.g., Expressive E's Touché), so a single synthesizer patch can have quite a number of "timbre dimensions" for me. It feels difficult going back to a standard MIDI keyboard (as a comparison, imagine going from a standard MIDI keyboard back to one without velocity sensitivity, no pitch bend, nor any other controller -- and this comparison is actually less drastic).
Now, I understand that Synfire does not support MPE, because a single track can only generate/hold MIDI data for a single MIDI channel. Right?
So, what I am currently trying to do as a workaround is creating first a sketch of a piece with Synfire and then later in a DAW with MPE support turn this sketch into the actual piece (a bit like creating first a pencil drawing and then later a painting with the actual colours).
I am using various MPE-capable synthesizer plugins. Now, one of the problems I am having with this overall approach of first creating a "drawing" with Synfire and then later the "painting" elsewhere is that I cannot even use the same synthesizer patches for both versions. My MPE patches use pressure and timbre MIDI control data not only for some expressivity quasi on top of some traditional MIDI patch. No, such control data are the main envelopes, and if such data is absent, then the patches are basically silent. Imagine you are playing a violin: in addition to stopping strings for the right pitches (quasi the MIDI note events) you also need to use the bow (various controller data), otherwise there is just no sound.
So, this approach is really a bit like first creating a drawing without colours or only very rough colour approximations using pencils, and then the colours are only painted later with some different software. Or a bit like first creating a piano piece with Synfire and then later orchestrating that elsewhere.
But of course, I cannot really go back and forth between these two stages of work. I first by and large need to complete the Synfire "drawing" before progressing to the "painting". Hm...
Do., 23.10.2025 - 21:02 Permalink
Good question. We would also like to know.
The challenge with MPE is the same as with something as simple and profane as the pitch bend controller. It captures a performance and is very specific to the original sound and polyphonic phrasing. It is statically glued to a recording.
It would be hard to isolate it from its original context and use it as a parameter in a different context (let alone generate it with a Factory or draw it with a pen). If anything, it needs to be attached to Figure segments and it must survive all operations and transformations performed on the Figure parameter.
Attaching CC data to segments like articulations has been on the wish list for years. It'll be a challenge to make a UI for this.
