Audio & USB on Windows

Yeah the reason there's a lot of problems on PC with multiple programs using the hardware is not the hardware or the platform really, it's because a lot of manufacturers are still dragging their feet implenting good drivers, you get what you pay for. Looking for cheap low budget interfaces?.. expect problems and research before you buy.

Then there's ASIO4all which has added a lot to this problem since it's not a real ASIO driver but just a wrapper for WDM, people want to use a 5$ realtek chip or consumer cards like soundblaster as thier main audio hardware and are surprised there's problems :D

I can add Focusrite Saffire interfaces as problem free. I can run my daw of choice (Live, Cubase, Sonar, Sequoia and Reaper) along synfire and all can use midi and audio. Depending on your plugin load the latency is low enough to be unnoticeable.

OS Mixer app for Focusrite cards can be pretty confusing, but only because it's very flexible, once you figure it out it's pretty easy to setup.

It is late at night here and perhaps I should wait to respond ... but let me jump in anyway.

First, I am not really clear what you are identifying as the Windows' problem (s).

For an example, Cubase has a 'switch' in it's preferences permitting it to retain exclusive control over the selected audio drivers or to release them when it is a 'background' program, i.e., does not have focus. That suggests to me that the sharing of audio device drivers is not a function of the Windows OS, but of how a program is designed to utilize the drivers.

How does the Steinberg multi-client ASIO driver work for you?

I am not sure what you mean. Do you mean the ASIO driver technology or some specific new multi-client ASIO design from Cubase, which I have not heard of.

If you meant ASIO technology, then I would say it is outstanding. I am able to record audio on my RME hardware using RME ASIO drivers in any DAW at 32 sample buffer size. This is almost the same as what can be achieved on the new Pro Tools HDX DSP cards. But I do have a powerful computer.

I am also unclear why you link USB and ASIO. I run PCIe connections and believe they are superior for reliablity and through put, but I note even RME is today making USB 2.0 interfaces.

Are you trying to create a list of recommended audio hardware or a minimum hardware standard?

I am also unclear about the "issues" you request workarounds for on the Windows platfrom. Perhaps because I have always found the virtual midi cable method preferable and have not delved into drones and SFP/ SFE audio engine, I am ignorant of them. You've heard me ramble on about my preference for controlling my outputs from my DAW and not using the SF Audio engine, so perhaps that is why I've never dealt with any conflict between who 'owns' the ASIO drivers at any moment.

It strikes me that one possible solution for you is to make the SF audio enigine a true Rewire slave. Using Rewire is the basic way that people utilize multiple DAWS at the same time in Windows. This also permits MIDI streaming and transport control. The current implementation of Rewire in SFP/ SFE appears quite limited/ primitive.

Or, you may have to simply present SFP/ SFE on Windows as a different, more limited program focusing more on the use of virtual midi cabling as in HN2.

What is affordable? I would think that anyone affording SFP or SFE understands the necessity of a serious investment in hardware. If one is not in need of multiple outputs for recording or synth line input, then there are several very high quality 2 channel USB interfaces such as the RME Baby Face  or new offerings from Focusrite comparble in quality, functioni and driver support to the Apogee Duet on the Mac.

I would also add that I believe anyone running a lot of VSTi instruments even on an x64 system with plenty of RAM, is likely to have issues with midi controller input with respect to finding a compromise between latency and cpu usage as determined by audio buffer size.

Many people have very unrealistic expectations about what can be accomplished and I don't think this is a platform specific issue.

Prado

Steinberg ( Cubase) has a free program ( to download ) "asiomulti" what i also use 

I am not sure what you mean. Do you mean the ASIO driver technology or some specific new multi-client ASIO design from Cubase, which I have not heard of.

 

With asiomulti i can open Cubase and Halion5 at the same time on my Windows computer ... or more programs
In asiomulti you choose your asio driver and in the application : client...
In windows you cannot  normally open 2 audioprograms at the same time and listen to them..it seems in Mac no problem, there you can open multide audioprograms

But me  poor Window user must use asiomulti..sniff

Got it, thanks Janamdo.

FWIW, this does not appear to be from the Steinberg Company, now owned by Yamaha, but created by an individual named Karl Steinberg who provides it as freeware. Whether he has any relationship to the Steinberg who started the company ... I don't know.

This may be 'over kill,' but here is the official 'read me' from the developer. The thing I note is that the setup does not provide for easy change of the sample buffer size. If you need to change buffer size, it appears you must open, change the buffer, and close individually each app used in the multi-client setting.

I may give this a trial later ... if I figure out a use for it! :)

ASIO Multiclient Wrapper

  *please* read this first remark in order to avoid problems, it's simple:

  After installation, you should proceed as follows:

  - start the ASIO Server application and select the target ASIO driver.

  - start each application that is to be used with the ASIO Client

    seperately, select the ASIO Client as the application's audio

    device, and exit the application before proceeding to the next one.

  This way you avoid possible problems which may occur with the

  target ASIO driver when it is beeing accessed directly, and at the

  same time by the ASIO Multiclient wrapper. You only need to run

  this procedure once.

  But what is it?

  ASIO (Audio Streaming Input Output) is a technology of Steinberg.

  It allows for low latencies and pretty much every state-of-the-art

  audio device is nowadays delivered with an ASIO driver

  (on Windows, at least). However, the basic idea behind ASIO is

  that professional audio applications entirely take ownership of

  the ASIO device.

  Only very few ASIO drivers support true multiple application

  access. This effectively means that you can not use 2 or more

  applications using the same ASIO device at the same time.

  The ASIO Multiclient wrapper overcomes this problem by

  providing a 'proxy' ASIO driver (the ASIO client), several of

  which can connect to the one ASIO Server, which in turn

  'speaks' to the target ASIO device (driver). The server mixes

  the output streams of all applications, and provides that mix

  to the target device.

  Restrictions:

  - You can not change the block size (also named buffer

  size, or latency setting) of the target driver while an application

  is using the ASIO client (you can tell that an ASIO Client is

  active when the ASIO Server window is opened or minimized).

  - all applications using the ASIO Client should be set to the

  same sampling rate (there can only be one common sampling

  rate, naturally).

  It's best to avoid problems with block size and sampling rate

  by setting these up in the target drivers' control panel before

  starting any application using the ASIO Client, and to not

  attempt to change these settings while any such application

  is running.

  ASIO Server window:

  You can start the ASIO Server at any time. It is automatically

  started when the first ASIO Client is activated, and closes

  when the last client exits. When you invoke the ASIO Server

  manually, it does not consume resources as it does not

  activate the target ASIO driver before the first client signs in.

  The upper menu selects the target ASIO driver (this is of course

  only possible when no client is active). This setting is beeing

  remembered and restored whenever the server opens.

  Below that menu is a list of active applications using the

  ASIO client application (if any), and their started state (if any

  application is in the started state, the ASIO driver is started

  and streams audio).

  Then there is an info text which also shows errors etc when

  the ASIO Server encounters problems with the target ASIO driver.

  Finally:

  Pls note that there is no warranty whatsoever. If you encounter

  problems with specific devices, let us know. No support

  promised but you can try contact info@vidance.com

Disclaimer:

The owner and distributor of this freeware, Karl Steinberg, accepts

no responsibility for damages resulting from the use of these files

and makes no warranty or representation, either express or implied,

including but not limited to, any implied warranty of merchantability

or fitness for a particular purpose. This software is provided "AS IS",

and you, its user, assume all risks when using it.

Use at your own risk!

Looks like Karl Steinberg must be part of the company as the download for this is on the Steinberg FTP server.

I got the idea that he is founder of Steinberg (Cubase) , but not in the company anymore active..that's my impression 

On the Mac I reglarly run Logic Pro, Synfire and Band-in-a-box simultainously.  No problems here.. To set audio buffer you must set them in indiviual apps, no problem to change one, others are fine. I'll also leave all three apps open and then watch a movie..  If I have a lot of plug-ins runing (some64 and some 32) Logic will occassionally give an error of 'incompatible sample rates'.  I just hit, ok and everything picks up again.. Only when I am using a Large amount of tracks with a lot of plug-ins to I have to change the buffer size, so as things, don't make 'glitching noises'' Of course when you hit, start there is a slight pause..

Logic's 32 bridge adapter leaves something to be desired, It crashes often, even after long periods of no actitivity of any kind.

Don't know if this helps any or not. 

1. windows 8 64bit - if you want to use synfire with a usb midi interface I must right click on synfire icon and run synfire as administrator.

2. turn off "use audio engine for midi input"

3. if u get the red flicker light indicating midi but no sounds, try clicking on (and enabling) a different instrument..

thx ...love the update and good work.

I recently started using Harrison Mixbus which includes a free utility called "Jack" designed to take care of this very problem.

You can read about it and download it at "jackaudio.org"

I've only used it with Mixbus and Reaper, but it should work with Synfire as well.

Boyd