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I suppose everyone here is well familiar with the 'key editors' contained in most DAWs. To summarize briefly, the page with the Piano Keys running vertically down the left side of a window and a grid where you can draw or edit midi notes.
Does anyone know of any DAW or software key editor that does the following?
Instead of having the keyboard and horizontal grid lines ... usually following the piano with white for the C Major notes and grey for the sharps or flats in C Major, it permits you to transpose the keyboard and associated white and grey horizontal grid lines to another key signature and scale?
I know that in Cubase you can conform any midi file to a key signature and many available scales with the Midimodifier tool and then 'freeze' the midi to move those notes to the grid of your desired scale ... but this is done behind the scenes.
I'd like to be able to reconfigure the entire keyboard and grid lines to a different key and scale and be able to experiment with ideas before I froze the track.
In Cubase you can give each midi clip a color from the track header color, then select several midi files and open them in the editor together. If you select 'Part' from the viewing option, you'll now see the notes with the color of the part they belong to.
My intent would be to take different midi files I have, select a key and scale I want to use and then load the midi file into that key/ scale grid to try to see where different musical passages can fit together nicely.
Thanks for any suggestions!
Prado
Mi., 31.07.2013 - 01:44 Permalink
No idea if this is anywhere what you are looking at but in ableton live you can do the following.
In the piano roll, place a note on every note position for the scale and key you want for an octave. Copy these notes and transpose up and down by octaves to cover the octave range you need.
Click the fold button. This removes all the note positions that are blank. Then you can use the resulting grid to draw notes on knowing they will all be in scale and key. Lastly remove the first bar with the dummy notes.
Unfortunately you have to know what notes fit the scale and key you want to work in. Also it is only good for drawing notes in, not playing them live. For live playing use something like the swartinager (wrong spelling) but it's a max for live object that allows live playing but constrained to any key and scale.
One other option is to use a controller that allows the key and scale to be set. Think ablteon's push does this as does the eigen harp range.
Mi., 31.07.2013 - 06:08 Permalink
Why not simply transpose the instruments? If you tune your instruments two semitones up, your notes at the piano roll grid will play in D major instead of C major for example. Or if you tune them 5 semitones down, the notes will be played in G major.
But honestly: Are problems like these not the reason why we use Synfire?
Mi., 31.07.2013 - 08:59 Permalink
Thanks Blacksun ... that's handy for inputing to a key and scale ... but not for the purpose I have in mind. I want to see where existing midi files fall on or off the key.
When you use functions like in Cubase where notes are forced to a key/ scale ... it just moves them to the nearest note position. It doesn't take into account the role the previously played in the original key, e.g., third, fifth, etc.
Mi., 31.07.2013 - 09:07 Permalink
Juergen, it is different than transposing ... I understand that exactly as you describe. If I could easily sight read music or clearly have instant knowledge of all the scale notes by position for each key, e.g., F# Haromonic Minor, I wouldn't ask.
I don't just want to be able to transpose, I want to be able to use such a midi device to see how best to fit a phrase that pleases me written in one key into or against another phrase, or quickly determine the scales used in a piece of music.
Synfire will produce any result ... but it won't analyze existing data to the same degree. That's why we sometimes have to confirm signature key when we import a midi file, right?
I have gifted friends who are musical and can identify and play almost anything by ear on a single hearing. Alas, I do not have this talent.
Mi., 31.07.2013 - 10:53 Permalink
OK, I think I understand what you're trying to do. How about this: Assuming, you know the key of the piece, then you can transpose it easily in the piano roll editor into C major (or A minor), where everything is clear and easy.
Say, you know that the piece you want to analyse is written in F sharp major (which has 6 sharps and can be very confusing at the piano roll editor). Then, simply select all notes in the piano roll editor and drag them 6 semitones down. The piece then stands in the key C major and you can easily see what notes belong to the scale of the key (the white keys) and what notes don't belong to it (the black keys). This information is then valid also at the original key F sharp major. That's the method I have used before I had Synfire. It works also for minor keys; you have to transpose the notes to A minor then. But in any case you need to know the original key of the piece of course.
Mi., 31.07.2013 - 11:31 Permalink
Is it not possible in Synfire to have a phrase in whatever key you want?
You can listening than to different phrases in the progressioneditor
I must say the notion of a "global key" ( estimate and select a global key ) and a local tonalility how these two are related is not yet totally clear for me
I do need a musical example of this, because i don't understand it this screen with 4 scales to choose from : vertical,horizontal, key and relation.
Mi., 31.07.2013 - 17:58 Permalink
Juergen wrote: But in any case you need to know the original key of the piece of course.
Yes, you understand, but this is the point ... with what I propose you wouldn't have to know the original key.
You could play the passage as written in th midi and then adjust it to the grid of the key you want by ear until it 'sounds right.' This would help you find the proper original root note and preserve the original scale relationhips before moving them to your grid of chosen key and scale. Transpose functions simply force the notes to the scale and sometimes on half-steps sends it the wrong way.
This can of course be done by selecting all notes in a key editor and moving them up and down ... as opposed to using a transpose function, and then just selecting all instances of any one note across the passage and adjusting that. But it is a laborious process.
My idea would simplify this process and also make for more friendly note entry as the feature in Ableton mentioned by Blacksun does.
Mi., 31.07.2013 - 18:05 Permalink
Jan wrote: I do need a musical example of this, because i don't understand it this screen with 4 scales to choose from : vertical,horizontal, key and relation.
This is more like the static note idea you have of importing midi phrases without needing it to be analyzed ... not about the way SF uses it's AI. I am not talking about something in SF ... but a more traditional tool based upon the Key/ Piano Roll Editor.
There would only be two parameters you select: key signature and specific scale you wanted to use. Many DAWs permit you to manipulate midi by selecting a key and then, for examples, Dorian or Pentatonic Minor, etc. But as I said, there are some problem with conforming existing midi data this way.
Mi., 31.07.2013 - 18:46 Permalink
In the phrase editor in Synfire Express there is no information to find in what (local) key/scale the current phrase is written.
If Synfire can make a analyse of this phrase and give a inputscreen to chance the phrase for a new scale/key and show this new phrase in a lane ..perhaps you can make than a serie of phrases to choose from.
Than you drag the phrase to a library..on this way you get key/scale variations on a phrase
If you should these phrases again it will be probably changed by the Musical Intelli.. of Synfire when you setup a progression.
Some thoughts about this...