Posted
As I work with this program, I am wondering what other people's workflow is. Do they stick with Synfire Pro and then port over to DAW only at end. Are they staying totally in Synfire Pro? What is the scope of MIDI setups they are using (4 ports X 16)? Are they using only virtual instruments?
Do they go back/forth between software programs. Say export MIDI to a DAW, clean/fix/modify something, then import back into Synfire Pro for additional work. This software really teaches you how to think and visualize music in a different way. When I first got Harmony Navigator, I would create a progression and accompianment, bring over to Logic. After some playing/modifying, I would go back to HN2 alter a chord or two, or drop in a verse with some alternate chords. Just the shifting of that perspective, made the arrangement better, and I could cut down the amount of instruments and notes needed. (I read in an Arranging book, all notes should have a purpose, if they don't DELETE it).
Andre, I'd love to hear your design philosophy, and what you had in mind as you created this. I'm sure it will give us all insight into the scope of how to use it.. And I suppose, because of the amount of tools you have created, some people will use it ways, that originally didn't occur to you.
Two years ago I bought a Yamaha Tyros. The average age of Tyros customers is 60's. 99% of customers use it as a 'one man b and' That's how Yamaha treats it. As I looked through it's MIDI SETUP pages, I realized there was a ton of features, and 'hooks' the user could access. The original software creator had a lot more in mind than a 'one man band'
I eventually found his 'manifesto' for writing the software on the web somewhere, it definetly gave me more insight and perspective on the machine. After reading his thoughts and insightsI devised a way to play/overdub parts from different styles, to record/cut/paste whole sections in Logic. Or record 4 passes of a bass part in different styles, Cut into half bar phrases, and paste merge to create a part no style could come close to duplicating. I've called Yamaha a couple of times asking very detailed questions about the inner mechanisms of the software, They have no answer, only the creator in Japan could answer that, they don't have access to him.
I see even more potential here. This is like 'photoshop' for music, There is an abundant amount of tools, and different ways to approach and realize a solution. The permutations seem boundless, and I get a bet overwhelmed by what you have created here.
The more we all share and contribute our discoveries, approaches, the more informed we will all become.
Di., 08.03.2011 - 17:01 Permalink
I have no idea of what those .png's are, I did not add them.. There must be a rat chewing on cables at your website host!
Mi., 09.03.2011 - 22:51 Permalink
There definitely is a rat chewing on the site code somewhere! The file attachments get totally messed with. As much as I hate it, I will have to dig into this and debug it. Otherwise the site will probably fade to chaos over time.
Please do not delete the attached files! I will need them to find out what went wrong.
Thank you for your thoughts and questions. The many features of Synfire are certainly overwhelming and undoubtedly need to be demonstrated in the context of workflows, rather than just listing them in the manual.
Moving back and forth between DAW and Synfire is what currently annoys me the most and I am sure this is also what most users feel could be much simpified. If the current VST/AU work we are doing will be successful (and everything looks like that at the moment), we can eliminate this import/export dance and users will be able to complete a work entirely inside their DAW, with the help of Synfire as an extremely powerful sidekick and virtual conductor. Let alone all the sync problems and related issues. They will all be history.
Concerning my personal workflow, I tend to work my way forward by experimenting with random imported and recorded phrases, test them with different progressions, and once I found something that wakes my interest, I start thinning out and tweaking the figures and develop motifs and arrangements from there. In the end, "less is more", so the refinement of figures is very important.
The central point in my workflow is to try out different phrases, progressions, parameters and arrangements together, again and again, until I see an idea that is worth following.
Do., 10.03.2011 - 03:20 Permalink
I'm beginning to develop a technique. It is great to create something, Get it flushed out a bit, and then go back/forth in Logic/Synfire. Leaving it in a virtual state, it's easy to change one chord, (or many). You don''t have to go back and rebuild each track to accomodate chord changes..
Right now, I'm appreciating SP's work flow. Because it is so different from DAW's it's good for right now, that it is seperate, if only learn it. While there are a things that work like a DAW, you really have to approach it as something different. I'm still grappling with an overview insight
Do., 10.03.2011 - 12:19 Permalink
While there are a things that work like a DAW, you really have to approach it as something different.
It needs to be different, because Synfire works on a concept of music rather than a final representation. It is much like working with a 3D modelling software (Blender, Maya), in contrast to doing pixel-level editing with Photoshop.
Do., 10.03.2011 - 14:17 Permalink
Well since I like to hear the 'final' sound when I'm composing, I have allways 2 programs open at the same time, SF and Reaper.
I've setup a template in Reaper with all my usual racks (=instruments) and use direct adressing in SF.
When the composition is final, and only then, I export to MIDI and import in Reaper.
Just my way of working....
By the way Marc, I'm also a Tyros owner :)
Rony
Do., 10.03.2011 - 18:30 Permalink
3D modeling is an EXCELLENT analogy - I'm still struggling to get past MIDI notes, with pitch, time, duration. etc. My first instinct is to think of that way.
Rony - Wow great, I'd love to share thoughts/workflow with you regarding Tyros. Did you create a SF instrument bank for Tyros? I've found a cubase patchlist for Tyros 4, but can't seem to get it into SF yet. (still very new to SF). I really don't want to enter in Bank MSB/LSB/Prog # for each patch in Tyros. What did you do?