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Audio Track

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I'd like to be able to import a single audio file into Synfire, so I can compose along to it in Synfire. 

I know it's possible to use drones to sync Synfire to a DAW, but using an audio file within Synfire seems like it would be far easier.

 

 


Sa., 16.01.2021 - 13:52 Permalink

 

Hi,

Audio is possible via a small detour: I take the free "Geist Lite" (FXpansion).

The audio track is first to be prepared in the daw (cutting the total length to exact time signature).

Add "Geist Lite" to a track in Synfire, load the prepared audio file in the vst and slice it to measure length. Now you can trigger the audio file with precise timing via Synfire.

Sa., 16.01.2021 - 23:36 Permalink

Geist FXpansion is no longer available. They have a Geist2, which costs $199...way more than I'm willing to pay just to bring audio into Synfire.

But thank you for chiming in. It was worth a shot.

Mo., 18.01.2021 - 21:20 Permalink

... but then it should work with a sampler vst in which the audio file is placed on different keys after it has been prepared in the daw.

Mo., 18.01.2021 - 23:56 Permalink

Do you mean I would, in Synfire, send MIDI notes to an instantiated sampler VST, which would then trigger audio in the sampler corresponding to those notes? Sounds feasible, if maybe somewhat clumsy. Being able to import an audio track would still be far preferable. But maybe that's what I'll end up doing in lieu of an audio track. Thanks.

Anyway, for the time being I've gone off in a different but related direction. I'm running Maschine Studio as a VST in Synfire. I have dozens of expansion sets, and I picked a project that I like from one of them. I dragged/dropped all the MIDI from the various patterns in the expansion over to a Synfire library, where I processed the patterns into phrase pools. (If, during import, you check the box that tells Synfire to import all files in the Directory, Synfire will import every pattern from that project in one operation.) I didn't bother processing the non-pitched (basically the drums/percussion) patterns, because it's tedious and I plan to have Maschine play some or all of those in sync with my Synfire/DAW project. I just need to process the pitched MIDI, so Synfire can work its magic with it.

Then I added to the Synfire project the phrases I liked, and sent them to various synths. I auditioned various chord progressions. The project, still in progress, sounds similar to the original Maschine expansion, but also quite different...different chords, different synth sounds, and I added a different bass part, using a modified bass phrase from another of my libraries.

The result (so far) is unlike anything I've produced before. Did I create it? I've been asking myself that question for years now, well before I arrived at even my still rudimentary skill level with Synfire. My answer is, it's computer-aided composition. I didn't start from scratch, but the result is always something unique that didn't exist before. In a way this method (using Maschine MIDI patterns) is similar to using ANY phrase pools from a Synfire library, except the phrases are more likely to work well together.

In terms of producing high-quality music more quickly, and having a fairly good idea from the outset as to what the final genre will be, I find this method intriguing.

Di., 19.01.2021 - 13:22 Permalink

I see the point, but unfortunately it is unlikely we will add audio tracks to Synfire anytime soon, because it's non-trivial to integrate and synchronize audio files with the music. You would have to have an anchor for placement, waveform display, tempo correction and whatnot. And all that only for static files (no movable regions, no cutting, no duplication, etc).

Any DAW out there is way better equipped to do that.

Di., 19.01.2021 - 18:23 Permalink

You would know the situation better than I. And there are alternatives, so I'll just have to figure out which one works best for me.

Still, one can dream can't one? :)

Mi., 20.01.2021 - 18:41 Permalink

Hi Mr Cat, there's that chap on this forum whose made a VST plugin that loads videos. I think it loads the associated soundtrack as well. It syncs as VST so you could compose alongside it?

Mi., 20.01.2021 - 19:13 Permalink

MISTER Cat? Why so formal? :)

I'm not sure who that chap is. 

And anyway, I'm slowly coming around to thinking that using a drone may be the easiest solution.

Thank you.

 

Do., 21.01.2021 - 14:38 Permalink

Was it not with a drone in a DAW that there was a synchronization for controls ( play/stop )with Synfire ?
So you start recording in Synfire and at the same time a audiofile in the DAW  is running 

Do., 21.01.2021 - 22:42 Permalink

Let's get on a first name basis...call me Hangdog.

Thanks for the link. That might do the trick, although at first glance it looks like I'll have to make the audio track into a video in order for it to work with that plug-in. No big deal.

Do., 21.01.2021 - 22:45 Permalink

Re drones: I prefer to work in either Synfire or my DAW, but not both at once if I have a choice. 

But if the VST thingy doesn't pan out, it will probably be drone time.

Fr., 22.01.2021 - 08:48 Permalink

Yes, look how it is going with these setups ..

Did you have experience to setup a drone in your DAW earlier ?

I thought that working with a drone is not advisable by Cognitone , because timing issues can occur ( also my experience) 
Its possible to add audio tracks  in Synfire, but it seems too much work to do this
Who knows when there is more time for Cognitone , maybe it will be there the audio tracks in Synfire .. a big suprize 
 

Fr., 22.01.2021 - 04:56 Permalink

As I recall, I tried using drones years ago...didn't much like them. The whole process seemed clumsy.

Also, Andre was quite definite that there would be no audio track feature in Synfire. But there are apparently other options.

Fr., 22.01.2021 - 18:35 Permalink

Who knows ?

The whole new coming AI phrase generator in Synfire was in the beginning also not needed said André some years ago.
Now he is very enthousiastic about it. 

Perhaps if there is more time for other developments ? 
Its complicated building a audio track(s) in Synfire as i may believe it, but it seems to me not more complicated then what André at the moment is doing
It are my two cents about this subject.   

Fr., 22.01.2021 - 10:05 Permalink

MIDI data, once inside the Drone, is always 100% in perfect sync with the DAW. Timing issues should only occur if you have tempo changes. These don't transfer well from Synfire to DAW in real-time. ReWire is just not equipped for that. I strongly recommend you postpone tempo changes until after your music has finally moved to the DAW.

The most frequent use case for "Audio track in Synfire" is to compose music along existing audio (vocals, recorded instruments, drums). Since the audio was recorded with the DAW anyway, it makes sense to keep it here. Even more so, if you have multiple audio tracks and/or effects and routing setup already.

Once the required number of Drones is loaded into the DAW, the workflow is pretty much transparent going forward.

The only point for concern is possible USB port conflicts on Windows. There is no such issue on macOS.

(https://users.cognitone.com/kb/problems-midi-input-windows)

(https://users.cognitone.com/wiki/list-multi-client-audio-midi-drivers-w…)

(https://users.cognitone.com/kb/using-synfire-and-daw-same-asio-device)

Fr., 22.01.2021 - 11:15 Permalink

Hi Andre. Yes Drone is best solution for workflow into the DAW. But Rewire technology is not perfect. I use Logic, Cubase and Studio One. Best DAW for rewire technology is Cubase. The worst DAW for rewire is unfortunetly Logic Pro. I don't know why. But When I use logic with synfire pro Cursor is not good for synchronization. If You only Listen to music on DAW no problem, but If you want to follow Cursor Cursor is not synchronization with DAW after ten or fifteen minutes. Synfire pro is a incredible software but with DAW integration is not good. So that We want to use only Synfire pro as a arrangement. Afterthat We want to drop midi into DAW. It is no problem for Synfire Pro. Only Audio track is problem for that.  I think so many people firstly use DAW in order to use Audio track. Thanks for great support Andre.

 

So., 24.01.2021 - 01:28 Permalink

Not tried it, but MPC Beats is a mini drump sequencer thingy that also supports 2 stereo audio tracks. It can also be loaded into another DAW or VST Host so you might be able to use it to play 2 audio tracks in synfire. Also its free.

(https://www.akaipro.com/mpc-beats)

 

So., 24.01.2021 - 04:34 Permalink

Dear Most Honorable & Esteemed Ruchir:

I finally got around to trying the VidPlay VST demo, and it does work. (Hooray!)

Easy to use.

But before I buy the full version ($18 US), I have a question for Andre: Will Synfire support VST2 for the foreseeable future? VidPlay is a VST2. Thanks.

EDIT:  I also plan to check out MPC Beats.

So., 24.01.2021 - 16:53 Permalink

So far I have been unable to figure out how to import an audio track into MPC Beats. I've found a ton of instructional material explaining all the arcane features, but not how to import audio.

OTOH in VidPlay it is very simple to import audio even without reading a manual, although it does mean I have to convert the audio into a video, and unlike MPC Beats the VidPlay app is not free. Still, unless audio import in MPC Beats turns out to be fairly easy, I'll probably go with VidPlay.

 

So., 24.01.2021 - 19:07 Permalink

First of all you look the left side of MPC Beats. You see Midi and audio part. You have to put Audio side. Just drag and drop audio files into audio part. It is simple my friend.

So., 24.01.2021 - 20:38 Permalink

Yes, that works. Simple enough! Thank you.

One little inconvenience is that there can be only ONE instance of MPC Beats running in Synfire at one time, so if I set it up on the Global Rack and then do the "Copy to Rack" thing to copy it to the Private Rack, I get an error message when I try to use the private rack instance. Thus I'll probably skip the Global Rack set it up on the Private Rack for every project in which I want to use outside audio. No big deal...it's easy to set up.

Mo., 25.01.2021 - 19:15 Permalink

VST2 will be supported as long as technically possible. Legally there's nothing that would stop us supporting it, but you never know when major DAWs will drop it.

Mo., 25.01.2021 - 22:04 Permalink

If you have Kontakt, the full version, you can drop the audio tracks onto the keys in the mapping editor. To play the audio file trigger it by it's associated key.

Fr., 29.01.2021 - 21:44 Permalink

Thank you. I do have the full Kontakt, but I'm using MPC Beats to play audio tracks in Synfire, because it's easy, free, and it works.