Posted
The HN manual - I can't find info on things like what 'voice leading break' or 'hint pitch range' mean for example. Is the manual a little sketchy? Or is it perhaps me?!
Also... (referring to chords only mode)
I am still frustrated by the voice leading control in the Progression Editor. Using the default standard major pallette and dragging C and dminor into the progression editor as the first and second chord, C goes in as a second inversion! Why?
Now if this was easy to correct I woud be fine and on one level it is- change the inversion in the Harmony Tab in the editor but...but..it's still very difficult to create meaningful and correct progressions. For example -and this is key- you cannot double a note at an octave. Without that it is not possible to make correct (as in conjunct, no parallels) voice leading between chords.
Jumping down a minor 7th melodically is kinda not OK....which is exactly what happens in my example above once the second inversion C major has been corrected to a C in the bass- it then jumps down to D in the octave below for the subsequent dminor chord.
And from ths point on it just becomes really really difficult to control the flow and spacing of the progression.
Hence why I'm also asking what 'voice leading break' or 'hint pitch range' mean above.
Your thoughts?
Mo., 21.11.2011 - 21:14 Permalink
The inversions and pitch leaps you experience are due to the playing range of the instrument. Try changing the playing range of the global instruments. HN does not operate in the full 128 pitch range but tries to keep the constraints of each instrument. The typical pitch is a very important parameter.
The current voice leading also produces a narrow voicing for a single instrument (e.g. piano). It does not produce a wide voicing with four separate voices (chorale). We hope to get this into a future update as an additional composition mode.
Voice leading break: Resets the voice leading and starts a new passage.
Hint pitch range: The progression does not know anything about the intstrument it will be used with (of which there are many in a song), so a hint can be given whether a particular chord should be pitched higher or lower than what the voice leading suggests. These hints only work for a single instrument at a time (because each instrument will render a different chord sequence depending on its playing ranges).
With HN, the instrument has a huge influence on the output. This is required to make phrases and harmonies work with different instruments.
Mo., 21.11.2011 - 23:13 Permalink
This is the area of HA that I have never got my head round- especially if you use the IAC bus and don't want any of that midi instrument stuff. I know how to get midi down the IAC buss, I can't figure out how HA 'restricts' it in some way.
But but please... Why does a C major tonic chord in a C major pallette come out in second inversion??
Di., 22.11.2011 - 16:33 Permalink
I can't figure out how HA 'restricts' it in some way.
Most instruments have a limited pitch range only. Even a full 88 key piano does not cover all 128 MIDI notes. HN ensures this range is not violated when it renders music. It also uses the typical pitch, that is the average timbre or color you want to hear from that instrument.
Why does a C major tonic chord in a C major pallette come out in second inversion
Because the typical pitch setting for the instrument makes HN choose the inversion that comes closest to the desired timbre or color. If you don't force a particular inversion, HN will make the decision.
Di., 22.11.2011 - 20:30 Permalink
Supertonic did not put it correctly. Unless you are very close to the limits of a pitch range, it's not the range that influences inversion. It's the typical pitch.
In narrow voicing for piano or guitar the particular inversion does not make a big difference. Average pitch is more significant there (timbre). It's a totally different story if you had four part counterpoint that spans multiple octaves (and I assume that's what you are looking for).
If you want to make sure C is in root position, set 1 for the bass and you're done.
Di., 22.11.2011 - 23:06 Permalink
OK, if I understand you correctly you are saying that timbre is more important than inversion in narrow voicing. IMHO that is highly debatable but lets not get stuck there....
I play a chord. If it is the tonic chord I at least try to put a C in the bass if we are in C major. For the tonic chord!
But I open HN and the default palette tonic chord in C major has a G in the bass- I just don't get why the 'typical pitch' of the (unknown) instrument forces a G in the bass at this point in the proceedings.
Mi., 23.11.2011 - 01:19 Permalink
I just don't get why the 'typical pitch' of the (unknown) instrument forces a G in the bass at this point in the proceedings.
Because the narrow voicing policy puts timbre over theory, which is certainly debatable, because the bass is shared by all instruments.
I admit that not making the instrument (the global "Chords" instrument, btw) and its attributes transparent enough to the user is certainly a user interface design weakness that should be fixed. There should perhaps be a more obvious knob somewhere in front of the palette for setting the desired target pitch, rather than requiring a switch to the global midi setup.
I also see the point that HN should perhaps force a canonical inversion at certain points of a progression, e.g. the tonic at the very beginning. However, as a progression evolves and keys change, the C Major chord may take different roles and functions, so there is no such canonical inversion anymore.
All this confusion results from the fundamental design background of separating harmony from physical form (figure). Users working in the chords-only mode usually expect to shape a particular form - the physical execution of a progression for exactly one instrument. This however is not what a progression was designed for. It was designed to guide many instruments, each following its own figures and rules for rendering harmony to pitch ((https://users.cognitone.com/content/common-misconceptions-progressions)).
I'm not saying this as an excuse. I just want to explain why dumbing down a complex phrase renderer to a simple chords-only mode is such a stretch.
Mi., 23.11.2011 - 13:25 Permalink
As supertonic said..
The current voice leading also produces a narrow voicing for a single instrument (e.g. piano). It does not produce a wide voicing with four separate voices (chorale). We hope to get this into a future update as an additional composition mode.
Yeah, i hope HN2 follows the traditional fourpart harmony rules in thefuture ( =octave doubling), like i see in the text books
and in capelle software ( also from Germany!)
On this way it is educational interesting, because there is so much to find musicinformation and 3 chord voicing seems to me limited in sound.
A good voice leading is really important for the listener and on what principles this is based : the timbre of the instrument ..the voice leading(= chord) must fit the instrument and based on a certain pitch (seems to me logical) and than must follow a correct voice leading between the progression chords.
The musical result counts.. sounds it good?
I hope HN2 gets the automatic VSti installer and also drones for the 8 tracks so it is possible to get a melody easy and user phrases
Than it becomes exciting.