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I was looking at making an ensemble chord progression for a while.
There is a tutorial (https://users.cognitone.com/tutorial/how-make-4-voice-wide-range-auto-c…)
Now with the new feature in Synfire 2 to change the voicings in the chord progression at once is the tutorial obsolete?
New method : ( 4 note chord)
- compose a chord progression
- place a triad
- add a bass doubling (separate track? or in existing track)
To get a rich chord ensemble, there can be up to 5 chord tones in it, which can also be slightly modified.
- It are triads with two times doubling the bass note of the triad
- Am-Dm-G-Am progression ( a minor key) as exercise
A new adjustment in Synfire ?
To place chord tones on separate tracks and see where they are in the note image, it would be useful if the "outputs" of the various tracks can be combined.
Note: the same is possible in Cubase: to stack notes.
So., 29.05.2022 - 21:24 Permalink
Unfortanely, Synfire has not the functionality to come up with these ensemble chords.
How to write with sample libraries ensemble patches - YouTube
Not everything is still possible in Synfire, but this version 2 is so much better than the previous version
idea : maybe splitting the two doubling octaves from the bass tone of the triad to a own track and the triads to a another track ?
Problem is here that i cannot combine the two outputs in one output to be capable to see all chord tones in a output.
- Adding two basslines copied from the bassnotes of the chords under the bass note of the chords : each one octave against eachother : problem here its is out of the grid.
- moving the triads one octave higher : also here the grid it stops here
Perhaps the two basslines in one track can be one on the middle line and 1 bassline one octave below : like in the tutorial by assingning the soundrange the soundrange individual : how to do that?
Mo., 30.05.2022 - 19:07 Permalink
You don't necessarily need to combine multiple tracks. You can enable Auto-Chords and Auto-Bass at the same time, which gives you a doubling in the bass on the same track (you can even combine that with a Figure). With the progression editor you can set open voicing, inversions, alignment, etc. Also, the playing ranges of the instrument affect the outcome too (see attached file).
If you want to use a Figure, I would use the Relative symbol type. It gives you the opportunity to start at one of the chord's intervals and continue from there following the vertical scale. Just put multiple parallel segments in the same Figure.
The problem with tweaking details to fit a specific progression is that it won't work anymore with a different progression. I would do that only in the final stages of production.
Mo., 30.05.2022 - 21:46 Permalink
Thanks for the example! : it gives an idea to construct a (5 note?) chord progression.
If you compare the sustained auto chords with the drawn chords below : that makes a huge difference in the hearing experience.
It sounds much better.
I would like to start with triads and not use dominant chords (no seventh chords), because something can still be done to the top two chord lines as shown in the video example.
Also I would not want to do anything to the voice leading that synfire dictates and at most make the voicings wider automatically (actually I do not want to
think about it too much and make a lot of settings)
In the video example, the bass of the chords is doubled by 2 octaves.
That brings the chord to 5 notes.
Going to set it up again for triads and an auto bass track in one track.
Wonder if I can easily double the auto bass by 2 octaves?
Would be an idea to add octave doubling option based on the bass note of the chord.
Di., 31.05.2022 - 08:31 Permalink
> You don't necessarily need to combine multiple tracks. You can enable Auto-Chords and Auto-Bass at the same time, which gives you a doubling in the bass on the same track (you can even combine that with a Figure)
How to check this doubling from the bass note of the Auto-chords with the Auto-Bass?
Di., 31.05.2022 - 08:36 Permalink
To see the auto chords and auto bass chords in 1 output screen with octave indication and in a larger grid.
The output screen could be enlarged.
To see if the orchestral instruments are on the right pitch (octave) in relation to each other, the output combination of instruments is also useful.
Di., 31.05.2022 - 10:17 Permalink
Not bad at all.
- started with an auto-bass
- drop harmony parameter on figure of auto-bass track
- chords follow the progression -> revoicing applied
Add another octave of bass line below the existing bass line : doesn't work
The top two chord lines , raise that one more octave and change the notes there some more or adjust the existing two chord lines some.
Apply Leagato to the whole.
Add a velocity curve -> annoying thing in Synfire: doesn't work, is so easy in Cubase to draw a round curve with a rising velocity in measure 1 and a falling velocity in measure 2
Adding the legato and velocity still doesn't work.
Note: legato in Synfire is that there is no space between two adjacent notes.
In the video example there is a small overlap between the legato notes to get a smoother instrument transition
Di., 31.05.2022 - 11:06 Permalink
One thing I notice when playing the chord progression that the first 5 bars of the progression sound different than the repeat of the chord progression which sounds better ?
How is that possible ?
Could easily convert this to the chords in the video example
Improvement
- legato option and velocity curve are still missing
- play more in the higher register of the ensemble and add a 5th chord tone
Still sounds too low
Remark:
o .. now the chord progression is done without "revoicing"
Also listen to the revoiced progression ..
Di., 31.05.2022 - 19:46 Permalink
a couple of things to check/try. Depending on the parameter settings bass might be set to monophonic so that wont work with overlapped notes, the second note would truncate the first. Same could be true of your other voices, maybe check them too. Also check your soundsettings in the vst, in the video the guy increased the release a bit. You cant overlap the notes of the same pitch though if they are on the same instrument. Try turning on tie notes (i think thats what its called) this holds the same note if two notes the same pitch are separated by the end of a measure/bar. I think legato removes gaps between notes in synfire, you'd have to manually alter the positions and lengths of the notes to achieve the overlap as seen in the video.
As to the velocity, try using the gestault (again from memory so it might not be called that) tool that looks like an angular egg cup on its side. I find making curves easier with that. Also remember that the velocity can be polyphonic in synfire. Once again you need to make sure the vst is setup to handle velocity ,some orchestral instruments use the mod wheel rather than velocity to do things like swells and the like.
Di., 31.05.2022 - 21:11 Permalink
Yes, the auto-bass puts a bass note of a chord 1 octave below it and then I put an auto-chord on the bass track.
So you can make 4 or 5 note chords with the green chord symbol and that's different than using the "relative" symbol to build a chord as André's example shows.
If you do it with a relative symbol, the chord building then the normal voiceleading works for the progression, but the voicing feature (make chords wider) does not work here in my opinion.
Is really about velocity curve sign in Synfire for the chord progression ..going to try again as you suggest.
We can use also the hypereditor ?
Working with the green chord symbols there is nothing more to do with the top 2 melody lines if I give them another "melody".
To shift all notes manually is too laborious (working method for in Cubase)
This goes for all the notes except the edge notes, I think and I have not tried it yet in Synfire.
Di., 31.05.2022 - 22:56 Permalink
Can go a long way with triads and seventh chords with the auto-bass and auto-chords
combine into one track.
Gives an acceptable result.
The new voicing option does not work with this, considering the musical result: sounds bad.
Only the auto-bass track should also be visible as a figure to correct too low bass notes-> can't be done in Synfire now.
So this could be a new adjustment in Synfire. !
The chord progression quality in the video example is not yet possible in Synfire.
Mi., 01.06.2022 - 00:00 Permalink
if what you are doing is generating notes that are too low, just change the playing range minimum note. To be honest I dont use the auto bass/chord feature unless its to generate some temporary background music to test melodies against the chord progression. I dont know if this would work but if you create snapshot or use the re-render function it might convert the autochord and autobass into actual figures?
Mi., 01.06.2022 - 14:37 Permalink
The auto bass of this I dragged the ouput parameter to the figure output. (I didn't see any other way to get a figure of the auto-bass)
Keep the bass symbols in absolute pitch, because other symbols like the bass symbol and relative symbol do not sound good with the auto chord track combined.
The enclosed gif shows that the combination of the outputs can be handy
- You could put another octave of bass under the existing bass line
- the top two chord lines could have extra pitch added to them as shown in the video
How do you get the top two chord lines isolated as a figure in a track and also 1 octave higher ?
Enclosed a synfire example with reverb ( without legato and velocity curve )
