Posted
I wanted to fully focus on a subject that's been in the back of my mind..
That is the ability in the future to come back to a SFP project and have everything work properly.. We have been indirectly addressing it. I'm all sure, most users, like me, 'go thru plug-ins'...That is we have a favorite and use it all along.. Then than company goes belly up. Or apple unanounced, changes the Audio Units specifications (and they'be done this a few times).. A lot of 3rd party companies, are forced to reign in their scope, hence, the might drop Audio Unit formats, Mac platform, PC platform, Dump TDM specs. Etc..
Ocassionally new computers come along, which forces everyone to drop alot of plug-ins, (Mac PPC to Intell). Some companies even make only one flavor of a plug in..For instance Music Lab's Real Guitar (great). lets you output the midi data (articulations, chords, and strummig patterns, but only on their VST version.. See Apple didn't deem it necessary for midi instruments Audio Units to output a MIDI file. (still ticks me off)
We go thru contortions, Send the audio thru something like Melodyne, (forget Logics audio to midi process). In the hopes we can take this brilliant guitar part and use our own favorite guitar patch, instead of Music Labs limited pallete.
This requires one to anticpate future changes.. I now save all MIDI tracks in a seperate folder project..That is I export all Logic midi tracks one by one.. Logic will occassionally corrupt a project, and you will not be able to retrieve those midi tracks you spent so much time on. I also save all plug-ing proceses as a patch if I can.. I also make use of a Picture taker app..Currently using 'Snap'n'Drag'.. This lets you save directly to jpeg format without having to convert Apples desktop picture taker.. This saves a lot of notetaking to document something
Lastly, if it is an important effect.. I record a track of that alone, and add it with the dry track, to achieve the desired results..
What this boils down to, is that two years ago, you can take a project and thoroughly duplicate it, even though OS's, plugins, Platforms have changed..
We need to give some throught to this, (and Andre is doing it)..Right now, i create a song library of any phrases used from the 40 libraries I already had.. This is to that I can reconstruct the SFP project in the future.
Naturally at some points, a program evolves so much, they can't be backwards compatible..We have to be on the look-out for that.
I currently save all related files, with the song project.. So I have a Logic song folder, mix folder, SFP folder, Band-In-a-Box folder. MIDI folder, a note folder containers any jpegs Itookto refresh my memory. Even a reference folder of particular songs that have features I want to incorporate, or serves as inspiration to tme. All audio files are in Logic folder, If I think the project is important enough I export all audio files into a seperate folder one at a time. I don't bother with 32 bit floating any more, seem to remember some snafu with it.
I also create a clean orchestral score.. Years from now, some company may be interested in the movew and want to create their own version of it.. This gives me a acknowledged standard for other musicians to follow what i did.
In Tyros machine , I create a folder, and put all the different styles, and registrations i used.. The Tyros creates a special problem, cause you might create a great part then didn't make a not of the style you used.. I often use 4 - 10 styles in a project.. I might create a bass part, i where I use the registration feature to call up any of 7 different bass styles just to make that bass part jump.
I might use MPads, I create registrations for overdubs of one instrument.. I go thru and adjust programs, volumes and patches,eq's etc.,so when I jump thru the different patches, the part sounds cohesive.
With SFP there are several issues.. You would want to save your chord progression seperately. Create a library (from the many libraries you have, that uses only the parts you used in this song. You may even want to export each instrument, region one at a time..
The racks worry me, because many times I have already forgot to save, or misplaced them.. Mac OSX has this disturbing operation, where it sometimes, seems to forget where you are placing something.. You hit save, and assume it's where you need it. (hint - look in user/music.. I lot of times, I find my bounced down tracks in there..Later I am stuck with dozens and dozens of file, that I don't know that go where..
Usually at the end of a project, I condense things down.. But i've recently come to the concluseion to save to 'green' drives, they are cheaper.. And you can save every version of song (sometimes ending up with 12 gigs of files).. I often find, the best take is the one I did two weeks before the finished take.. This way I have my options covered..
I know Andre has or is addressing the issue of keeping related files with the song projects. Please consider keeping all parts.. I'm still confused by racks, shared, private, mid..And I gather if Idon't remember to save it when quiting program I'm f^^^ked.. Another idea used in Macs new windows..is it restores all the windows open when machine is shut down..This would at least allow us to retrieve every part of last project..
I'm sure I've overlooked a few SPF things.. Any one with any ideas, speak up.. It would be nice to have a check off list, to be aware of.
(Worried about the new Mac Pro, and life in general)
MarkStyles
PS... I've retired (or put out to pasture).. It's just like when I was 26, except for the extra 40 pounds and the arthritus..
But each day is an adventure like in my youth,, and my hardest decision is how many hours am I gonna put into making music today. Thank God I have music..That and food are the important things left in my life..
So., 15.09.2013 - 12:46 Permalink
Why don't try out Cubase with Halion5 ( perhaps you can sell some equipment an buy second hand Cubase/Halion5)
Cubase( Yamaha) and Halion5 seems to me more "musical"than Logic now is.
In Cubase you can give your music those dynamics, articulations you want on a rather easy way and express yourself more.
Or waiting and hoping that this will be the case in Logic and Synfire one day?
I'm still confused by racks, shared, private, mid..And I gather if Idon't remember to save it when quiting program I'm f^^^ked..
A soundrack has a soundmodule and this soundmodule has a sounddevice definition (a trinity)
sound-->(rack/module/device description).
Now in Synfire a global rack (synfire) stands for soundrack and a rackmodule (Synfire) stands for soundmodule (or sounddevice named) and a device description (synfire) stands for soundevice definition.
There is a soundrack (arrangement rack named in Synfire) for to use with only one arrangement(file)..and there is soundrack (global rack named in Synfire) for use for multiple arrangement(files) ( the same sounds can be used over and over again with more than one arrangement(file).
Still not clear enough in Synfire the soundassigning..because you don't focus the user on a arrangement rack and a global(arrangement) rack ..too much text to explain all.
global rack --> could be better named global arrangement rack.
Better is to have two tabs and a symbolic drawing of a arrangement rack connected with a arrangement (file) for example for the arrangement rack...also for the global rack a symbolic drawing and less text.
Consider Cubase and HALion5 , perhaps you can get a bargain somewhere and experiment with it and keep it simple :)
So., 15.09.2013 - 12:58 Permalink
You would want to save your chord progression seperately.
File >> Convert >> Extract Progressions. Synfire now also keeps your last used palette with the arrangement.
Create a library (from the many libraries you have, that uses only the parts you used in this song.
Check out the "Book" icon on the top toolbar. Drop any phrases from other libraries you want to include with the project permanently.
The racks worry me, because many times I have already forgot to save
Open the Global Rack window ("Audio & MIDI Setup): File >> Save As … It should now be impossible to forget saving, because Synfire reminds you of it at every occasion. It is a good idea to save the Global Rack to the folder along with the Songs that use it. (Synfire now even keeps track of that too).
Worried about the new Mac Pro, and life in general
Don't worry, make music :-D
So., 15.09.2013 - 15:25 Permalink
One thing I love about ableton is the 'collect all and save feature'. This prompts with what to include, you have the option of including user library stuff and system library stuff, but everything used in the project is saved into the one folder structure, regardless of where it was kept when you created the track. I'd love to see a similar feature for synfire. So you open 1 file and everything is loaded, all windows opened, all racks reloaded and you are back up and running how you were two years ago, even though the original librarwere have been deleted or modified. Obviously you would still need the same vsts and daw files Available.
Mo., 16.09.2013 - 00:07 Permalink
My hope here is each user points out the strong aspects of his Set-up and how it pertains to running smoothly with SFP. (not my DAW is better than yours). They all have their merits,
What I expect is we can come up with a complete list of things to do and save, to make our set-ups 'future proof'. For instance when Logic 9 came out, it would only read back to Logic 7 formats.. Logic 7 read all the back to Logic 2, which is when I got involved.. Most people had discarded Logic 7. But when Logic X came out, they made it backwards compatible all the way..
In the old days with tape, All your songs were backward compatible.. This is the goal we hope to achieve. So in 4 years time when SPP has morphed into, "I am the King Of All Media" we will be able to retrieve the work we started oh so many years ago..
How do other's archive their project.. From the 24 track tape days. Every instrument had it's own track. I pretty much continued that till a couple of years ago with software.. Once I figured out CC settings. This way if a project got picked up, all the hard work was done.. They could just copy your tracks onto their analog machine, or load into Protools.
If I'm doing a demo of the song, I would mix Tyros down as a live 2 track. Once I find a singer, it's easy to transpose, and create new material to enhance the sings.
If I feel a song has potential I spend the extra hours recording every track one at a time.. as midi and audio. This of course allows you to substitute new and better sounds as your sound library expands, I use a lot of Kontakt libraries, some are great.. I'll often go back and use Superior, or Additive drums.. My new favorite now is 'drumagog'. Then your stuff really sounds like a record, all the drum sounds, have been eq'd and limited, with a large number of multi-samples so a particular drum never sounds the same sound twice.. It's a great program.
When you have a keyboard, it's computer is dedicated to doing nothing but generating sounds, (like a Korg PA, or Yamaha Tyros or Motif, They sound so much more dynamic and alive. Things are changing in real time. Some libraries sound static compared to them.. An accomplished musician though is able to ekk out the best possible sound by a lot of tweaking, articulations, and mixing of libraries together.. Putting one or two solo strings on top of an ensemble. But in the last two years there has been a tremendous jump in the price, and complexity of the libraries,
A friend of mine took Berklee's online course for films scoring. He met up with a Hollywood producer, and he spent over $15K on sound libraries. But it's like making music with 'Lego bricks'.. It has become a huge market, and some musicians are making a lot of money off it, more so than any record deal, could even hope to achieve.
For a while I was using a Korg M3 (wanted the Karma technology). You think SFP is complicated, Take a look at Steven Kays' Karma software. He has been doing this for quite a few years ago. And has managed to get his software in a few Korg workstations, He had a dedicated PC for it, and now he makes Karma software to run in conjunction with anybodies DAW.. He is just as driven, talented as our Andre..
But the Karma software is REALLY esoteric, and very complicated. I played around with it for 9 months, but only came up with 'happy accident's (when you get a great pactch with arpeggiators running), but you don't understand the logic behind it, and hence really can't explore it, other than blindy turning swithes and knobs. Most of SFP is more straight ahead, and you CAN FIGURE out things.. although it is still a bit like reaching for something, and hoping you achieve it..
I'll never forget the day, I began to realize the power of minor chords, strings, and some modal scales.. Using these tools you could force a desired reaction out of people.. You had control over their emotions for the length of the movie or album. At first this was very disheartening - someone had taken the 'magic' out of the musc, and replaced it with a set of 'rules' to achieve the desired result.. As we mature we realize those same patterns in effect govern our life and what we make out of it.
I don't want to take the 'magic' out of SFP. Part of it's allure is it is 'magical', and your imagination are your only boundaries..But I do totally want to understand it inside and out. By doing this the conscious rational part of the brain is not so directly involved.. you think of something, your hands do something and out comes something inspired..
Once you have memorized all the scales and modes,, This processes are reduced to subroutines in another part of your brain. These subroutines find the desired notes, Your hearing has been process, and its' subroutines send message, of wher to put your fingers, for best result. .. It requires no concsious part for you to play a solo..
The beauty of this miracle is the ear is listeninng to what is going on about you, the bass player is kicking into a higher gear, people are starting to clap in time.. and your conscious brain maniuplates the already memorized finger scales, in real time.. You sit back and watch, think of nothing, thing of your girlfriend, think of your your guitar solo is like an orgasm. and that's when the real magic takes place.
Hell am I writing a diary here? Other peoples thoughts and processes are appreciated..
Jamando - I've been comitted to Logic for over 20 years, unless they really f$$k up, I don't plan on changing.. However the Halion is VERY intriguing, and is introducing a step up. I will keep my eyes open.. I contacted Steinburg. Unfortunately it doesn't appear there is a software demo of it, so that sours the situation a bit for me.
The Tyros 4 is on a similar but slightly dfferent approach.. It does use A.I. to figure out what you are doing.. It's Mega Articulation 2 voices, actually substitue different samples, (rises, glides, falls) according to what you are playing in real time, whether from your hands, or from your DAW.