Synfire 2.0 Preview

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Brahamh1
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I get it. I do something similar. I search for current popular songs and harvest the parts I like. About 4-5 songs. Then I get back to it a day later and piece it all together with my chords and manipulations. I'm honesly shocked at how fast I'm coming up with complete ideas and how fast I can get the parts together.  

Brahamh

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Hangdog Cat
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@Brahamh:

What is your process for harvesting the parts? Do you find MIDI versions of the songs and import them, or do you figure out the parts you like and then play them into Synfire as MIDI?

I mostly use MIDI imported into Synfire from the rather large collection I've accumulated over the years. I then send it out to various synths until something clicks. And like you, I am often amazed at how quickly Synfire can make it all work. And Synfire takes me in directions I never would have thought to go.

Never do more in the morning than you can undo in the afternoon.

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Solaris
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Very inspiring jazzy composition, it almost sounds like an improvisation jam !

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janamdo
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What is your process for harvesting the parts? Do you find MIDI versions of the songs and import them, or do you figure out the parts you like and then play them into Synfire as MIDI?

(2) Import: Harvest Phrases From MIDI Files - YouTube 

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Hangdog Cat
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@janamdo:

Yes, I use that import procedure quite often. But my question pertained more specifically to how Brahamh sources the MIDI so he can import it. IOW, where does he get the MIDI from?

I know there are companies that sell MIDI versions of popular songs but I've never used them, partly because I have so many MIDI files already (only so many hours in a day), and also because I have concerns re the quality of such services. And although figuring out the interesting parts and recording them into Synfire is doable, it can sometimes be time-consuming...for me anyway.

Never do more in the morning than you can undo in the afternoon.

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janamdo
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Yes, I use that import procedure quite often. But my question pertained more specifically to how Brahamh sources the MIDI so he can import it. IOW, where does he get the MIDI from?

You can buy or pirate midi's (warez) (thought i downloaded once 60.000 midi files..must look again on a drive for this) 
Yamaha keyboard styles can also be imported in Synfire  ( as in Cubase too )

Ah looked now at a   pirate source ( search : midi) :  found 50.000 midi file collection- 51.000 midi file collection saved from geocities-46845 midi-files and songtexts

Recently i am also do keyboardplaying with the PSRSX600  as start arranger keyboard.
Looks very promising the current psr SX700 /900 keyboards 
I am waiting on the next generation mid-range arranger keyboard successor of SX700/900 and can be used for composing too.
Did not  looked at the styles yet, but in the past i made some songs in Synfire by using styleparts

I can share this new styles  from this arranger keyboard  :   https://app.box.com/s/d17xw0j85zxgdjpz6opdr6me37rylan2
You can harvesting what you like : at that time i use the styles there was no harvesting an did blockcomposing ( a container can overlap another one : with this i could get the wanted musical expression )  
 

Thinking on also Band in Box has also a lot of midi's

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janamdo
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The styles .psr can be imported in Cubase 8.5 , but they need the soundmodule for the psr sx600 keyboard to get the right sound , because it are not always ordinairy  GM sounds.
In synfire it was .sty what was recognised as a style and could imported, but now with .psr ..can it be imported ?
I must figure out how i can use the keyboard soundmodule from the psr sx 600  in Synfire? 
In synfire there can be made a wav  file  from a arrangement, but probably it all won't work , because it are not Vsti sounds used from the sx600 soundmodule. 

There is midi for the "higher" mid range keyboards ( not on my present one) , but when the new model comes i can consider to upgrade. 

 

   

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Hangdog Cat
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I've made it a practice to never pirate anything. Anyway, I have a ton of MIDI, all of it paid for, and it's more than I can cope with already.

I have BIAB, and their MIDI might be worth looking into out of curiosity. And if I ever do work through all the MIDI on my computer (not likely in a hundred lifetimes) I could generate MIDI via my Korg Kronos...feed MIDI in and record the MIDI it then generates.

Back around 20 years ago I bought several sets called Twiddly Bits. I hadn't used them in recent years, because as the name implies they are small segments of MIDI, and I found them hard to make use of. But in Synfire less is often more, and I'm once again finding them useful.

If there is a legitimate (non-pirated) low-cost source of high-quality MIDI files of current pop hits, that would be of interest to me. 

But we're straying from the subject...

Never do more in the morning than you can undo in the afternoon.

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Brahamh1
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I purchased a lifetime membership to Supreme MIDI (price was so low considering how much content is on the website). I also got one for Kunstderfuge (classical music).

With the pop music, I look for really good 4 - 8 measure riffs/phrases for each part; bass, keys, synths, strings, drums, arps, etc. It's surprisiing how many of them go well together these days. With the palettes on Synfire, I make my chord progressions and then I start constructing and putting things together. Once I got the hang of it, I started figuring out which phrases work well together. I add a bunch of them and then eventually, I start to take out ones that sound - just ok - and leave the good sounding ones. 

With the classical midi's from Kunsterfuge, they have some amazing piano rolls that are played by some of the greatest pianists from decades and decades ago. From what I understand, piano rolls were used as a music storage medium to operate a player piano, piano player or reproducing piano. Piano rolls, like other music rolls, are continuous rolls of paper with perforations (holes) punched into them. The perforations represent note control data. They have been transcribed into MIDI so you literally hear what the master piano player played, so with Synfire, you get the performance. Harvesting the MIDI needs more detailed attention, but it is still relatively easy. I can't play worth shit -- as the saying goes -- but I know what I hear in my head. Synfire, to me, is like having the pro-player, playing the music for me. It follows my chords and styles, etc. My music sounds like a know how to play. I've also created some amazing synth solo parts with classical music. Those fellas back then were the rock stars of their time, so it all translates well into modern day music. Then there's the regular midi on that website; it's not as good as the piano rolls but it's still remarkably well played. 

I went off on a tangent, but to summarize, I've spend about $100US dollars total on two lifetime memberships for two different websites and it has me covered. I am in no way affiliated with those sites, by the way. It works so well for me that it sounds like a sales pitch. :-) I got tired of Google searching MIDI that was sub-par and sloppy.

 

Brahamh

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Hangdog Cat
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PS: There's a site called Hit Trax that sells MIDI arrangements of hit songs. They seem to have a lot to choose from, but are not quite current with the latest charts.

I added one arrangement to the cart, and it came to $9.99 US, with appropriate royalties going to the rights holders.

They do give discounts for 3 or more tracks.

I might give it a shot out of curiosity.

Never do more in the morning than you can undo in the afternoon.

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Hangdog Cat
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@Brahamh1:

That site sounds like it is definitely worth checking out. Thank you.

I'm not a keyboard player, but I am a fair-to-middling guitar player. Some people think I'm quite good, but really I'm just good enough to know that I'm not all that good. And these days I find working with MIDI and synths to be far more interesting.

 

Never do more in the morning than you can undo in the afternoon.

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xhevahir
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A site called Carlo's MIDI has free, contemporary pop MIDI files for download.

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janamdo
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Well, i am also not a good piano player, but with the electronic keyboard i can play better.
I  can record styles as midi (intro (3x)-breaks-main(4x-)-endings(3x), all style parts are composed from simple to more complex.(on usb stick) , what  i just did , so this is a gigantic source for composing.
There are free "packs" too : Voices & Style Expansion - Yamaha - UK and Ireland
With this you can do a lot more. 
Best result is to use keyboard as a soundmodule to get the original sounds back from the styles ( if possible?)

Import this static in Synfire and styles are composed as ( or not , because it takes not much time for converting directly into a phrase?)
- rhythm1
- rhythm2
- Bass
- Chord1
- Chord2
- Pad
- Phrase1
- Phrase 2

My basic arranger has some limitations ( no midi) , but with the higher models keyboard i could probably record directly style parts via midi inSynfire ? 

For Pop rock i do have 70 styles : how sounds the Jazzpop ?
415 styles in pop@rock-dance@R@B-latin@jazz-.... plus the free (world) pack styles  

Those styleparts are only the start for composing, ideal should be to have songs out of them
Free songs for the keyboard : i must look for this ? 

 

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Dewdman42
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ability to import Yamaha PSR style files would be a nice addition, but there are many variations on the PSR files, so that would not neccessarily be that easy to add..

 

5,1 MacPro 12x3.46ghz, 128gb ram, SynfirePro

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janamdo
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I think that the styleformat is now .psr and earlier it was .sty what synfire could read and import.
I could now not load a style from my latest arranger keyboard ( try again ) 

In a other thread i try to figure out how to use the soundmodule from my arranger keyboard psr sx600 
Because now i record a style into midi and import this in Synfire.
Directly import of the style is now bypassed.

If Cognitone can make import directly styles into synfire again possible  like in the past ?
Then no midi recording of style is needed by me.    

In Cubase can the .psr style also be loaded and  converted to  a midi file...

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Alpho
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André,
is it also possible to vary your own existing melody with the new sliders in Synfire 2.0?
I mean small variations like in classical music.

 

 

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Mach55
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Hello André, I am anxious to know news of 2.0 and when we will have the new update with so many changes. A big greeting to all.

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andre
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Just wanted to let all of you know that things are going very well. Sorry for the long delays in posting. I just got new stuff done that I want to show tomorrow: A first look at the new Arrange window and a new interactive help system.

Is it also possible to vary your own existing melody with the new sliders in Synfire 2.0?

Good point. Synfire can extract KIM rules from MIDI. That would be helpful. It is not clear though how that would translate to the probability distribution sliders. One melody is only a single sample. You would need a hundred or so of them to derive meaningful probabilities and hierarchical structures. Still a great idea to consider.

Still no ETA, but it's definitely months, not years ;-)

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andre
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Today a look at the new arrangement window, integrated library editor and interactive help system. This is really only a single quick take w/o narration. Didn't want to let you wait any longer (I'll never learn to never ever promise a date ;-).

The jazzy chaos towards the end is just what happens in a totally unscripted take. I didn't find the patience to redo it for better examples. It isn't about the music today anyway ;-)

The integrated library editor is really a boon. Generate stuff on the fly, switch to arrange tab and use it immediately. Prototyping on speed!

By the way, you can open any library in the arrangement now. Up to three are kept open at a time. Any number of standalone library editors can also run on the same libraries in parallel, allowing for drag & drop phrase exchange.

The help system was originally only a vague idea that now turned out to be a major feature. DITA based, offline and online. Will be easier to keep it current over time. Will include tutorials, troubleshooting, step-by-step tasks, basically 100% of all Synfire knowledge at your mouse click.

More stuff to come soon (you certainly noticed a few new things I skipped today)

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Hangdog Cat
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As someone who has struggled mightily with the convoluted, incomplete, and often self-contradictory manual, I'm very excited to see the context sensitive Help feature. That looks AWESOME! Thank you.

Having access to libraries within an Arrangment will be very helpful.

Those "generative" features are beyond my understanding at this point, but should be fun and rewarding to explore.

Take my money now!

Never do more in the morning than you can undo in the afternoon.

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processing
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Wow. Incredible work Andre. The integrated library editor looks so good. 

Refreshing this thread a number of times a week - looking forward to v2!

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richardbartlett
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Amazing Andre! Cannot wait to be able to explore this with my John Williams snippets that i have in my library!

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blacksun
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Looking impressive, I predict the help system will be my most used feature, superb.

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spukipuki
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Looks great! Caaaaaaan't wait!

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Tanerongunyzb
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I think that Synfire 2.0 is so useful . It's just amazing interface. I am so enthusiastic to try soon. Thanks for great support Andre.

 
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Jorge.Codina
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It's gonna be very very very funny !!!! (LOL) 

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HiEnergy
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This looks so good...

Hope it works on my old music machine (Windows 8.1, no internet connection)

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andre
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The original manual was translated from German by a translator. Now it's written in English from the start. Much more concise and to the point after ideas have settled over the years (user feedback helped a lot). Non-linear hypertext is also more helpful than book format.

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Alpho
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Man, that looks fantastic! Just can't wait.

 

 

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janamdo
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Clever idea also to build in the help for Synfire and hopefully it gives all answers :)

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