Posted
Hello,
I try to get me head around vertical scales and their use with the Bass symbol - especially how the vertical scales are created (choosen) on a per chord basis in the chord progression and their coherence to the horizontal scale?
And also what's the impact if one changes the bass of an chord (e.g. to G in a Cmaj chord), as this does not change the vertical scale nor does it influence the generated MIDI notes for the Chord symbol segments - the automatic voice leading seems to be stronger?
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For myself the Bass is somehow carrying the other instruments - depending on the genre (Pop, Rock, Electronic Dance Music, Electronic Ambient / Chillout Music) maybe also together with the drums & percussions.
Hence I was surprised that the Bass symbols is bound to the vertical scale and not the harmonic scale - how can the Bass carry & support the other instruments, when it might play out of scale and hence creating more or less tension up to dissonance. Assuming the Bass plays at the same time as the other instruments.
I figured out how to achieve a Bass playing on the horizontal scale and also in the low register playing range of an instrument, by using the Horizontal symbol and assigning the Segment manuall to the "low register" playing range - so that's not a problem.
But I am wondering how the vertical scale is choosen and how reliable these are "modal variations" of the horizontal scale, IF there is only 1 horizontal scale (only major or minor) and all chords are only using notes from this scale?
I think this is the case, if I understand Andres statement correctly : "The palette always prefers vertical scales that are subsets of the horizontal scale", see : https://users.cognitone.com/topic/vertical-scales-palettes.
If I for example choose A minor as the only horizontal scale in the Palette and create a I, III, IV, VII progression resulting in Am (A.aeolian), C (C.ionian), Dm (D.dorian) and G (G.mixolydian), all vertical scales ("above" the chords) are "modal variations / rotations" of A minor and hence contain the same pitch classes as the horizontal scale.
This is what I would call "coherent", as the Bass would never play out of the horizontal scale.
Although the horizontal and vertical scales share the same pitch classes, the "functions" of the pitch classes differ, which means Tonic, Dominant and Subdominant vary, so the scale & figure degress do, and hence the same figure shape creates different notes, depending on if its played by a Horizontal symbol or a Bass symbol.
This way the music prototyping and reuse of segments (figure shapes) comes into play and can lead to interessting tonal movement and compositions, which gets even more "creative" if one uses borrowed chords from other than the primary horizontal scale, as this will comprehensible result in vertical scales whose pitch classes will differ from the primary horizontal scale ... but that's a different thing that I am currently not into ;-).
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In other words : for some of my compositions I want to stay in the pitch classes of the one & only horizontal scale (set in the Pallete) and want to be sure that the vertical scales "over" the chords, which are build only from notes of the horizontal scale, are "pitch class equivalent" with the horizontal scale. Hence using the Bass symbol bound to the vertical scale is "safe".
Which means : I do not want to verify this each time (and by now I cannot translate the church modes in my head and verify this at a glance ;-). I know that even in the case it would differ, I could alter the vertical scale assigment manually in the Progression Tab, but this would be a too tedious workflow.
Cheers
Di., 24.10.2023 - 17:53 Permalink
Good questions. And welcome to the Forum!
Bass and chord are always built from the vertical scale. You could set an out-of-scale chromatic bass with the arrow keys on the inspector, but that's optional.
I am wondering how the vertical scale is choosen
The Scale Selection Preferences control this. You can change its settings, but as you said
I want to stay in the pitch classes of the one & only horizontal scale (set in the Pallete) and want to be sure that the vertical scales "over" the chords, which are build only from notes of the horizontal scale
What you want is modal. Just use a palette based on a single scale only. You can delete from the palette the scales you don't want and add your horizontal scale if it's not included.
Of course you must use chords from this palette only (reset the filer to see all) if you want to stay modal.
There's an example arrangement Modal Music (Express) that demonstrates this. It is based on a palette with only one scale.
Mi., 25.10.2023 - 18:12 Permalink
Thanks Andre for the insights and pointing out the "Scale Selection Preferences" makes things clearer.
But I am still struggling with the different types of scales, scale terminologies used in the manual and their practical use (implications) in Synfire.
In which cases does the horizontal scale differ from the Key (scale)? In the fundamentals section of the manual its said its stronlgy tied to the Key (https://docs.cognitone.com/synfire/EN/concepts/Fundamentals.html#concept.catalog.basics__horizontal).
In the Harmonic Context section of the manual its said that the horizontal scale defines the steps of the Key, hence likely that it is the "key scale" (https://docs.cognitone.com/synfire/EN/concepts/HarmonyContext.html).
Does the horizontal scale differ if the chord progression approaches a different Key, hence the option "smooth transition" in the "Scale Selection Preferences"?
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Why does the Palette, which is based upon a scale set, uses the term "reference scale", which seems to be the same as the Key in the Harmonic Context?
Are they "physically" always the same, but only have different names, as they appear in different "application contexts"?
And in certain situations, like in "Modal Music", it will be that : reference scale = key = horizontal scale?
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What's the role of the relation scale in the harmonic context, when it comes to Figure rendering?
I got the point that the relation scale tries to "encompass" the chord, vertical into the reference scale (key ?) as stated in the manual (https://docs.cognitone.com/synfire/EN/concepts/HarmonyContext.html).
But is it really only a visual hint for us, when building progressions? Or does it also have an influence on the rendered MIDI notes - as it seems to be a compromise to satisfy aspects of music theory and hence smooth things out?
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Which scales are listed (stacked) in which order in the tile of the harmonic context, as shown in the manual https://docs.cognitone.com/synfire/EN/concepts/HarmonyContext.html ?
It guess it will be the vertical, horizontal, key and relational scale - but which one is which : top to bottom ?
In my simple "Modal Music" experiments I see only 2 scales in the tiles of the harmonic context, which seem to be vertical scale at the top and the Key (scale) at the bottom.
Mi., 25.10.2023 - 18:47 Permalink
The terms Key and Scale mean different things to different people. The most general and genre-independent notion is that a key is not only one scale. Minor for instance has three scales at least. That's why we have scale sets and palettes.
In which cases does the horizontal scale differ from the Key (scale)?
When a chord can't be built from the key scale (reference scale) alone. Or when it is a better match with the previous scale.
Why does the Palette, which is based upon a scale set, uses the term "reference scale", which seems to be the same as the Key in the Harmonic Context?
Reference Scale is a term used in the palette only. Musically it's simply the most preferred horizontal scale. The "Key" and "Relation" properties in harmonic context refer to Scale Sets as a whole (i.e. multiple scales around a tonal center).
The "Relation" Scale Set may temporarily deviate from the "Key" if the chord doesn't match. Yes, it is mainly a visual hint for the user. The global "Key" remains the same and notes may be labeled with additional accidentals.
All this is not relevant when you are doing modal music. If the palette has only one scale, all modes will be derived from that as long as you don't use an out-of-scale chord somewhere. Just make sure scale Selection Preferences has alternative scale sets enabled.
Which scales are listed (stacked) in which order in the tile of the harmonic context
The most abstract item is always at the bottom (Key).