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It took me a while, but in the end I realized that the most practical way to write tonal music thinking horizontally (aka counterpoint) is to use only one chord, with the related horizontal or vertical scale, over multiple bars. A simple example could be the two-voice invention N. 1 in C major by Bach.
The first 6 bars are written entirely over the C major chord, with passing harmonies resulting only from the vertical combination of two notes.
From bar 7 I simply set the relation to G Major to introduce the F-sharp.
I would try with some more complex work like a Fugue. But unless there are strong chromatic passages, I guess is worth the same rule: a single chord for multiple bars in the same key.
bach_inv1.mp3
Fr., 15.03.2019 - 21:28 Permalink
Yes, probably is this strict counterpoint
There is also counterpoint more loosly for modern music
Spicing Up Your CompositionNow that we have your main melody and harmony finished, it’s time to take things to the next level. In this chapter, we will look at ways we can make your compositions more interesting, more intricate and driving. This can be done by introducing elements like counter melodies, ostinatos, interesting rhythms and sound design. We’re going to go through a few ways to use each of these in the following lessons.
To begin, let’s have a look at what these things can do to your composition.
Below you can listen to a theme consisting of only a main melody and harmony. I’ve then taken that main theme and introduced a counter melody, as well as a little ostinato. Listen to how much more alive and interesting it sounds.
Only Melody and Harmony:
With Ostinato and Countermelody:
Other things we'll look at, is using atmospheres and sound design to make your themes more interesting. Have a listen to some examples below:
Sound Design
Atmospheres
Don’t be discouraged if you think this sounds extremely advanced right away. In the following lessons, I’ll take you through several different ways to spice up your compositions, including using countermelodies, sound design, ostinatos and rhythms. Let’s start with one of my favorites, counter melodies!
Sa., 16.03.2019 - 16:46 Permalink
Don’t be discouraged if you think this sounds extremely advanced right away. In the following lessons, I’ll take you through several different ways to spice up your compositions, including using countermelodies, sound design, ostinatos and rhythms. Let’s start with one of my favorites, counter melodies!
Thank you janamdo, can't wait for :-)
Sa., 16.03.2019 - 17:19 Permalink
Counter-Melodies
I’m not going to go into advanced counterpoint theory in this chapter. It’s an extremely intricate and heavy theoretical subject that we could write hundreds of pages about. However, I want to teach you a very practical and effective way to approach counter melody writing, that basically does not require any deep theoretical knowledge at all. This is a technique I use all the time, and can be heard on most of my tracks. Before we dive into the practical part of how to do it, let’s have a look at the theme before and after a counter melody is added.
Before and after counter melody:
So far in our track, we’ve had two layers. Melody and harmony. When adding a counter melody, we’re introducing a third layer into our composition.
The most common problem I see among beginning composers when they try to introduce more layers is that it sounds chaotic and messy. The elements are competing against each other, rather than complementing and supporting each other. The key to a good and effective counter melody is to achieve balance, to make them work together instead of against each other.
Polyphony
Polyphony is the definition of several independent voices playing at the same time. That usually means that they are playing different rhythms, working as independent melodies and not just as a supporting second harmony to the first melody.
Now, you can imagine that if you take any random melody and put it on top of another one, even if they are in the same tempo and key - it will sound chaotic. All your efforts of building up a well structured and memorable melody will be wasted if you just throw a bunch of other notes on top of it.
It’s like painting a beautiful painting, and then just clashing a bunch of random colors on top of it because you want to have more stuff in there, more colors to make it more vibrant. This is not an effective method in music either.
However, imagine if you are adding more colors, step by step, in a way that compliments the existing colors and elements in the painting - so you’ll likely end up with a more pleasing result. Well, that’s pretty much what we want to achieve in our music as well. For every new layer we introduce, we want to carefully make it blend seamlessly with what’s already there, just as we would when adding new colors and elements to a painting.
Discussion
Sa., 16.03.2019 - 17:37 Permalink
Composing A Countermelody
From the Berklee courses, there is one thing that I’ve always remembered as a guideline to keep in mind for counter melodies. And it’s this:
When the main melody rests, the counter melody should be active. And when the main melody is active, the counter melody should rest. This will result in them complimenting each other, instead of fighting for attention and space. While it’s just one of many ways to use counter melodies, it’s a very effective one, and very good for beginners. Listen to the example from last page once more:
Counter melody, rest and movement:
https://afbeelding.im/i6gtk5az
Here you can hear how the two melodies are complimenting each other, and not fight for space. This is done by making one rest while the other is moving. Another thing to note, is that the two melodies are mirrors of each other. They follow the exact same rhythm, but the counter melody moves downwards while the melody has an upwards movement.
However, a lot of times you will also need to have them play simultaneously - so let’s look at some ways to do that.
The main thing to keep in mind is that you need to create separation between your layers.
Needless to say, if you take any two melodies - place them in the same kind of instruments (for example both in violins), in the same range, and with the same rhythm - they will blend together. If they are then playing different melodies, it will sound like a chaotic mess where you can’t really pull the individual melodies apart from each other. However, if you take one of the melodies, make it twice as slow, take it down one octave and give it to horns and woodwinds - you will have a totally different result. You’ll have some separation. Just listen to the examples below. In the first clip, the counter melody and the melody is fighting a little bit for space, while in the last one, they are coexisting much more smoothly.
"Bad" Countermelody:
Better Countermelody:
Discussion
Sa., 16.03.2019 - 17:40 Permalink
Countermelody Tips
Counter Melody Tips
Now, what we’ve done in the previous example, is creating some separation. This can be done by any combination of these elements:
Rhythm, Range, Tone color and Articulation.
By separating two layers by one or more of these elements, you will make them sound like individual layers and not one chaotic mass. Let’s have a quick look at each of them.
Rhythm:
Creating separation through different rhythms. For example having the main melody with longer slower notes, and a countermelody with quicker, shorter notes and more rhythmic activity.
Range:
Having the second melody in a lower or higher range than the first one, for example in a different octave.
Tone Color:
Using a different instrument with a different tone color for the counter melody. For example, violins playing the melody, and horns doing the second element.
Articulation:
Using different articulations. For example having a legato string melody over staccato or pizzicato counter elements.
You can use a combination of one or more of these two achieve separation between your melody and countermelody. You can for example use rhythm and range, having a cello play a slower counter melody to a quick violin theme. OR you can have the violas play pizzicato patterns, creating separation by articulation. Or you can have the cellos play long legato melodies with spiccato strings on top, using both articulation and rhythm.
For larger ensembles, you can use a combination of rhythm, range, and tone color - for example using legato horns and cellos under a quicker violin melody. Keep in mind that you don’t need to use all these elements to create separation, but 2-3 can work pretty well.
Check out this video to see how I do it:
Listen to the examples I worked with in the video here:
Without Countermelody:
With Countermelody:
Here you can hear how I have created a simple countermelody by using the tools above. I've used rhythm to make it rest while the melody is moving, and the other way around. I've used a different tone color by giving the countermelody to the horns, while the melody is in the high strings. I've also created separation through range, as the horn melody is the octave below the main melody.
Countermelodies are a great way to make your themes more interesting and is a great way to make your composition grow. One way to use them, is to introduce the main theme once first with only the main melody to avoid it from beimg too distracting, then on the second repetition introduce the counter melody to add some more interest. We'll look at exactly how to use the countermelodies in the orchestration and recording chapter. For now, let's create a countermelody element for our tracks!
Exercise:Try to compose a counter melody for your main theme. First, you can focus on having a melody that is moving when the main one is resting, then you can start experimenting more with having them playing at the same time, separating them more by the characteristics mentioned above.
My Result:
Piano only
Quick string mockup
So., 17.03.2019 - 15:08 Permalink
Would you like to imitate the music of Bach , then Pizzicato http://www.arpegemusic.com/index.htm can assiste you with counterpoint, because there is a inbuilt counterpoint module for the 5 species of counterpoint to perform.
Doing classical counterpoint like in pizzicato http://www.arpegemusic.com/li107.htm for Synfire is not possible,because there is no staff with a note editor.
Synfire is not a program for educational purposes and try to follow Bach :)
So., 17.03.2019 - 15:32 Permalink
Try to compose a counter melody for your main theme. First, you can focus on having a melody that is moving when the main one is resting, then you can start experimenting more with having them playing at the same time, separating them more by the characteristics mentioned above.
This reminds me of Berklee Film Music online class :-)
So., 17.03.2019 - 16:04 Permalink
Would you like to imitate the music of Bach , then Pizzicato http://www.arpegemusic.com/index.htm can assiste you with counterpoint, because there is a inbuilt counterpoint module for the 5 species of counterpoint to perform.
Thank you, j.
As a young student I wrote pages... and pages... and pages... of five-species counterpoint, from 4 voices to double choir, using Dubois as reference book. A tiring but fun time :)
Later I discovered this study --> "Il Canone e la Fuga. Logica di costruzione di due forme musicali", by Giancarlo Bizzi (only in Italian, unfortunately). You can purchase it, if you wish, from several online resellers. I would recommend it to a student, today, in place of the old and surpassed Dubois...
Synfire is not a program for educational purposes and try to follow Bach :)
Actually you can do counterpoint with Synfire and, if you want, you can also imitate Bach (with some headaches if you want to introduce chromatisms...)
But the real strength of Synfire, in my opinion, is the ability to work in non-linear way and from inside out: from a mass of MIDI events, even relatively chaotic, you can sculpt a recognizable shape, roughly as a sculptor does, using rather sophisticaed tools to manipulate data: inversion, retrograde, some rudimentary melodic profile modeling tools (to be improved...) and so on.
Or at least that's the way I prefer.
I personally try to use Synfire as an unpredictable "event coordinator", rather than as a DAW.
Which does not mean that we cannot make good, old counterpoint with SF, too :)
The purpose of this thread was only to show that if you want to work with scales rather than chords (preferable if you want to imitate the Baroque counterpoint) you can, and have to, reduce the chords to the minimum indispensable
So., 17.03.2019 - 17:48 Permalink
To remember my prehistoric school days, I tried to insert in Synfire a counterpoint in 4 voices. I did not play anything on the keyboard: just inserted the "notes" by hand, drawing lines and only taking care to leave some room for the voice moving in eights.
The result was not too bad. From an academic point of view Synfire has made some mistakes, but nothing that can not be fixed in Finale... :)
counterpoint_a4.mp3
So., 17.03.2019 - 21:06 Permalink
Well, i am not a trained musician, so i must look again to this studysubject :
composing Counterpoint
Learn to compose proper counterpoint in order to write like the classical masters or improve your pop/jazz arrangements. 4,3 (30 scores)Gemaakt door Jan-Pieter Rooij Found it good to follow , so must go back to this studymaterial
Di., 19.03.2019 - 19:24 Permalink
Well, i am not a trained musician
The good news is that the school counterpoint does not have so many rules: apart from the parallel or hidden fifths and octaves, the most important to keep in mind is to avoid the second inversion, ie the fifth in the lower voice (excluding the final cadences).
I tried to make a two-part counterpoint really simple, in order to figure out what is the best method in Synfire because Synfire is an amazing machine to handle multiple voices without getting headaches.
In my opinion, with Synfire the simplest thing is to play a voice and then copy and paste it into a separate track then inverting, flipping and shifting it up/down, right/left. Then quantize it, if needed, and listen how it sounds.
I outlined with colored rectangles the segments in my example: as you can see the figures in the lower voice coome from the upper part reversed and flipped with some manual adjustments to get a better melodic quality. Using the same flipped part ensures greater rhythmic coherence.
simple_counterp.mp3
Di., 19.03.2019 - 22:32 Permalink
Yes inverting, flipping looks like a reflection on a x axis and y-axis, but combining them can give something new too ( retrograde inversion ? )
https://users.cognitone.com/topic/transformation-phrase-editor
I like to see the vid again about bach transformations, but where to find it again?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xib5iL0Frks it were lectures from dr Kung
I made a synfire file with bachtransformations, but it doesn't open anymore?
Mi., 20.03.2019 - 16:29 Permalink
I found back the video about transformations and later on i will look at it again..doing some group theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_theory with a phrase in order to get some music.:)
Augmentation is a another form of rhytmic variation : the pitch stay the same , but the rhythm is lengthened by some degree. ( strict augmentation: the length of each note is doubled)
Diminution is opposite of Augmentation, you take the theme and shorten the note values (also strict diminuation is precisely half of a note) .
Is condensing theme (phrase)
transformation and symmetry in music on a higher leven in Synfire https://drive.google.com/open?id=1XXRMZGqtyhKEjB4HpTx0Tj02puDSDT3z
Phrase-inverse-retrograde-retrograde inverse-augmentation and diminition .. grouptable for this transformations ? and how to perform in Synfire
Do., 21.03.2019 - 11:57 Permalink
@Janamdo,
the best advice I can give, based on my limited experience with Synfire, is to test counterpoint on simple harmonic progressions like II-V-I or similar. You can add extensions of 7, 9 or 13, or altered chords, from the Palette.
In the attached example I played on a rubbish piece of plastic called "master keyboard..." the first (upper) voice, and from that voice I extracted the figures for the second (lower) voice then flipping and/or reversing it, and raising or lowering its register until I got a reasonable result.
Synfire for this kind of operations is a war-machine, can save you hours and hours of work and, not infrequently, suggest solutions that you didn't think about.
progression.mp3
Do., 21.03.2019 - 12:18 Permalink
Thanks
Yes, for the second and further parts to develop, you could, do a inversion, retrograde , retrograde inversion and diminition and augmentation in Synfire to start with.
Further transformations? , i did not look further for that in Synfire inbuild (if any?) at the moment :)
Do., 21.03.2019 - 17:44 Permalink
Futher transormations should be performed according to your taste and favorite type of music, janamdo.
My general approach to "thinking" software like Synfire is to feed them a melodic figure played live, even very short, say a measure or two, and a couple of chords also chosen, even at random if you use some exotic palette; and listen to how it sounds.
Then I use the inversion, stretching, contraction, pitch tools; and, again... listen how it sounds. Many times a good result depends on a good choice of chords, but there are so many parameters you can modify.. also the Priority drop-down menu under the Interpretaion tab can perform noticeable changes in the result...
But, in general, I let Synfire make the first move. It's not a DAW... ;-)
Do., 21.03.2019 - 19:48 Permalink
@janamdo
this is another very easy pseudo-modern counterpoint made with a very few figures. Some have been transformed from 16th to 12th (i.e. from even to odd sub-division) only to increase the rhytmic variety.
As soon as I got acquainted with multiple melodic layers, I'll try with other instrumental combo and genres
progression_0.mp3