Advice on Drones, Cubase and device descriptions workflow

Thanks for taking the time to write down your workflow. This is also valuable feedback for development.

Your workflow sounds perfectly right, although it would be a lot easier, if you could get the ReWire Transport to work with Cubase. This would save you the entire export/import effort. If you can resort to 32 bit Cubase, at least during the prototyping phase, that would be an option to consdier. You can still go 64 bit for final production.

Do I always have to do save as for the rack to be able to recall the device desc and the drones for a particular project?

Only if your project uses the shared rack *AND* the shared rack is likely to be changed.

I have a shared rack that did not change since the first days of our 1.5 testing and created a lot of sample projects based on it since then. The rack is only saved in one place. If I wanted to archive a project, I can still put a copy of the rack next to it (simple file copy) to ensure I can restore it even after months. 

Hint: Use private plugins for synthesizer-type instruments ("light weight"). This ensures their state is always saved with your Synfire arrangement.

Can I used shared rack and Cubase together?

You can host a shared rack in Cubase, yes. You can even host a private project in Cubase too, right next to the shared rack, although I would not recommend it (difficult to remember which drone belongs where).

You should not use an Engine-based rack with a Cubase-based project, as different hosts can not be synchronized well. Always use different hosts only for different purposes, e.g. you could use an Engine rack for your global instruments.

 

rbjarason,

 

Let me add my own experience, since I am using nearly the same workflow as you.  And I don't want any of this to be seen as a criticism of SFP.  It is singularly the most amazing software I use.

 

For various reasons, I hadn't been using SFP for quite a while, but picked it up heavily again a few months ago.  I was amazed at the work Andre and team had put in with audio engine.

 

So I built a whole new template based on drones in Cubase 6.  I stuck to 32-bit to use Rewire (which may be changing since Cubase 6.5 will have 64-bit rewire. Hope it works with SFP.)  Since I use VE Pro I house my instruments in a 64-bit workspace.  So I ended up using the drones in midi only mode.

 

Anyhow, the drones worked fine by building a template in Cubase.  I simply open the template each time and compose, then save the project under the same name as the new song.  This all works fine.

 

But the other day I finally went to lay off a rather large project and found half of my midi was being dropped and cutting in and out.  Don't know why but it would play fine while I was composing, but not while I laid it off.  I spent hours but couldn't get it to work properly.

 

Finally, I did something I had done when I worked with the software two years ago.  I dumped all the drones and went back to using Loopbe midi ports.  It took about an hour to convert the template over, but the lay back via Rewire Transport and midi was flawless.

 

So my story is I am back to using SFP as if it had no audio engine or drones, and it works perfectly for me.  I love the new dark interface and all I'm waiting for (and have been for the last couple years) are customziable keyboard shortcuts. 

 

I know the work on the audio engines and drones was huge and it is amazing, but in the end for me it didn't add a thing to SFP.  I went to back to the basics.

 

Brian

 

P.S. If you use Cubase and you're new to this, you have to add a local input transformer to each track to filter the channel coming from the midi port.   See pic.

 

 

 I stuck to 32-bit to use Rewire (which may be changing since Cubase 6.5 will have 64-bit rewire.

Yep! Cubase 6.5 is out now and the Rewire sync of Synfire with Cubase x64 works! Great! 

Thank you, Juergen. 

 

Now I need to decide whether or not to get Rewire 64 free next week with the Cubase 6 update or buy the Cubase 6.5 upgrade now.  Don't really need anything else it offers.

Yes, exporting SFP midi is one bar off..

 

Can you sync SFP of your DAW/or your DAW of SFP?   Logic and Rewire have not always gotten along that well.  Once installed Melodyne (a while ago) that took weeks to get together, Melodyne's rewire engine code overwrote critital Logic code.  (manufactors not talking or sharing data with each other) Apple has that nasty habit to.  Change the specs to something and not tell anyone till it's released.

 

Can I re-channalize the midi when importing a song into SFP?  I also need to totally kill it's transposing features for some tracks, In fact, you might consider that an option cause many keyboard sounds etc, go above/below a real instrument's proper range.

 

For now I'm exclusively using Tyros 4 for sound output.  I tried assigning a drone to a software instrument and then patching that module's out put to Tryos (In Logic it's a midi input, can't assign a drone to, it works sometimes other times the sound disappears, not sure if SFP, Logic, Mac OSX, or T4 is to blame.  Often I pull out the USB midi chord and plug back in, and sound returns, (guess that implies it's T4's fault)

 

For the way I'm working right now, I'd prefer that SFP just put's out MIDI data and let me deal with sounds on T4 mixer panel It's far easier and faster to assign faders, parameter on T4 front panel.  I'd want to keep SFP midi Outputs consistant, so I don't have to rechannel them on import back into Logic.

 

Of course at some point I might go back to using Kontakt a lot, then I would want all the features you have been laboring over. My point, is that people are going to use this software in ways you may not have given much consideration to. 

 

Having invested over 20 years in Logic and 3 in Tyros 4, I want new software that doesn't take a new approach to everything.  It's just way to complicated to learn.. Cognitone has obviously put a lot of effort into refining it's procedures, becaause so much of what it does. has no DAW counterpart. 

 

It's  importante for me to go back/forth between SFP and Logic  is I use Logic's score editor a lot. It's far easier to work on 16 tracks of notes at once,get a great overview  and fix clashes, or add runs etc, adjust chord substitutions.

 

 I understand why SFP uses the display it does cause of chord progressions, modalities etc.  In fact in some ways, it is easier to make changes, But if you want to take into account  out of key passing tones, grace notes etc (which are very import) Synfire lacks there. It seems to much work and beyond the scope of synfire to display traditional scores.  That's why it is important to be able to see the traditional score in your DAW, make note changes and reflect back to Synfire.

 

I know there is no easy solution, but I did  want to point out how much I value score editing.  I would almost say I'm makeing music 40% with my eyes now, and not totally relying on my hears.  I find, and probably most musicians find that once you get over 5 parts, it gets hard for the brain to discern what is going on, this is where the scoring capabilities are a great aid.   (wish my folks started me on music at age 5 then I might have had a chance to get perfect pitch)

 

Let's keep those updates rolling :}

Can you sync SFP of your DAW/or your DAW of SFP?

Cubase is controlled by Synfire, i.e. the transport buttons of Synfire must be used. 

 I would almost say I'm makeing music 40% with my eyes now, and not totally relying on my hears.

That's an interesting point, Mark, because many composers do that. I call that "eye oriented composing". Unfortunately it's not the eye that decides, whether a piece of music is good or bad. It's only the ear. The pure visual impression of the score says nothing about the quality of the music.