Posted
Can you give example of this?
Mon, 2012-10-22 - 23:59 Permalink
Root -> Container 1 -> Container 2
This is for nesting only (depth). At any of these levels, you can place as many containers side by side as you need.
Tue, 2012-10-23 - 00:55 Permalink
How to get songsections in SFE ? + one nested level for each instrument in the songsection --> see pic + example pic.
Please show me in SFE, how i can organise songsections containers with one nested level for the instruments.
( the same songsection example as in the video to see in SFE, that is what i want ).
Tue, 2012-10-23 - 09:07 Permalink
There is no fixed scheme how to use sections. You can arrange your containers in any way you like. The example does not show the best way to do this.
Add each section to your root container and enable Automatic Sectioning for the root container. Then fill your sections with phrases and containers as needed.
Tue, 2012-10-23 - 11:12 Permalink
The example does not show the best way to do this.
What example ?..there are two
Add each section to your root container and enable Automatic Sectioning for the root container. Then fill your sections with phrases and containers as needed.
No idea ...How to do add a section to the rootcontainer ? ... i made a animated gif
Tue, 2012-10-23 - 11:16 Permalink
Andres example is not good, in my opinion. To many child containers.
Section = Container, no difference. Just add containers to create sections.
Tue, 2012-10-23 - 13:20 Permalink
Add each section to your root container and enable Automatic Sectioning for the root container. Then fill your sections with phrases and containers as needed.
i ask you already now for the second time ..how to do this in SFE ?
------------------------------------------------------------
Are there users of SFP who know how this could be working in SFE ?
-----------------------------------------------------------
It revolves about how to setup a songstructure in SFE with collapsable songsections wich contains instruments and for every instrument a snapshot container.
Note 1:
Every instrument in the songsection must have one level of nesting, that's for one snapshot (container)
( that is the feature of SFE ..a instrument container + one snapshot container )
Note 2
( it doesn't matter in SFP if you use a empty container only for a songsection name and use a unlimited nested containers ..no limit there for nesting )
Tue, 2012-10-23 - 15:07 Permalink
You won't be able to create very complicated songs in sfe if you only have one instrument per container as you could then only have 3 instruments paying at the same time.
Put things that are in the majority of the song in the root and add to them or override them with child containers. Your animated gif isn't too far removed from what I would do but you don't need th same phrase and instrument in a parent container and child. Only add the phrase/instrument toa child if you want to override the parent phrase.
However you don't need to do this, you could just make side by side containers as a child of the root and fill them with phrases for each instrument. It is then a lot simpler to understand what's going on. You can copy, move or alias the containers to build your song structure.
It's a lot harder to explain than to do!!
Tue, 2012-10-23 - 15:46 Permalink
Thanks!
Yes, it better to see this in a animated gif, because you text gives room to questions for me
a example to start with ( no immediately need for you to answer this..it is a example)
You won't be able to create very complicated songs in sfe if you only have one instrument per container as you could then only have 3 instruments paying at the same time.
I like to give the arrangement a songstructure : collapsable songsections
Automatic sectioning another feature i must see in a animated .gif.
It is trial and error here: a low rendement learning strategy, but that coin is not fallen to cognitone, they are blocked for this and fail in producing a video about container basics.
Don't give a decent answer on my question: not good.
I am not interested in how to find out by trial and error how it all works with containers... give some examples that is better.
Tue, 2012-10-23 - 17:47 Permalink
There is not much to explain.
It's a lot harder to explain than to do!
Absolutely. Adding a container is Container >> New. Moving a container is simple drag & drop. I dont understand what could be considered so complicated about this.
Yes, it will take some experimentation until you find the structure that is best for what you want to achieve. Since everybody composes differently, there is no single way to do this. Also a pop song will look different from a piano piece, or orchestra. It is the composer's personal creative decision how to use containers.
If you purchase a car, will you ask the dealer to tell you where you have to drive? (I'm joking)
Look how markstyles uses containers. He posted several pictures. He's using containers with single phrases in them to be able to move them around independently. His arrangements have many, many containers. It works for him.
Look how Andre uses containers. He is lazy. He puts everything in the root and adds changes in child containers.
Find your own way to use containers. It is fun.
Tue, 2012-10-23 - 17:51 Permalink
You won't be able to create very complicated songs in sfe if you only have one instrument per container as you could then only have 3 instruments playing at the same time.
Erm, not quite true. You could put 16 containers side by side, each with a single phrase for another instrument. You could even put more containers in there, each with a certain parameter only (no figures).
Tue, 2012-10-23 - 19:12 Permalink
Erm, not quite true. You could put 16 containers side by side, each with a single phrase for another instrument. You could even put more containers in there, each with a certain parameter only (no figures).
That's for 16 instruments and for each a snapshot
I am talking about structure giving to a song.. what is what doing in the arrangement
Not only 16 containers with only a name on it and with their snapshots is enough in the arrangementview
Or alone a sectionname container with separate snapshots
No .. this is not good...makes it complicated
I think Cognitone make a big mistake by not allowing in a "section container" to show the individual instruments by separate containers and for this individual instruments a container with a certain parameter.
I think Cognitone must increase the nesting level to 3 to give the opportunity to structure a arrangement
For future releases of SFE i think that new user are not satisfied with a program where they not can organise their songs
Tue, 2012-10-23 - 20:58 Permalink
Janamdo I'm not sure what your problem is? Before I found synfire, I like most people making music used just a daw. Look at ableton, cubase, sonar, logic...etc none of these have nested containers. In fact they have only one container for the whole song but people make some damm impressive tunes with them.
When I first got synfire I still thought in daw terms, my first attempts also only had 1 container, but I still made tunes. You are not limited in the number of containers just in the depth you can put them in. Think of them more like intro, verse, chorus, bridge, breakdown, outro or their classical equivalents not as tuba, cello, 1st strings, subbass and you will find its not much of a limitation.
Tue, 2012-10-23 - 21:21 Permalink
I think Cognitone must increase the nesting level to 3
You have a long history of asking for more. If SFE had 3 levels, you would be asking for 4. What is it that makes you worry so much about things you probably do not even need? How about making some music first?
Blacksun is right: Great things can be done with 2 levels. More than that is really only useful for experienced and demanding users. Those would want the Pro edition anyway, for many reasons.
Tue, 2012-10-23 - 21:31 Permalink
Add each section to your root container and enable Automatic Sectioning for the root container. Then fill your sections with phrases and containers as needed.
Why i should do that .. fill the sections with phrases and containers ..has it an advantage with only two nesting levels ?
Tue, 2012-10-23 - 22:45 Permalink
Why i should do that .. fill the sections with phrases and containers ..has it an advantage with only two nesting levels ?
I dont understand the question. Why should you fill a container with phrases and containers. Maybe because that is the sole purpose of a container? What would an empty container be good for?
Sorry for my ironical tone, but you have stressed complaints about the number of instruments or containers so many times, starting with HN2 already. Did you really create a composition that scratches these limits? I think you are worrying to much about numbers. 16 instruments and 2 nesting levels are fine for making great music. Other users agreed with that. Even Cognitone rarely uses more!
Tue, 2012-10-23 - 23:30 Permalink
Why i should use the section container if it can also be done in the rootcontainer
--> the sectioncontainer gives a name to the set instruments that's the difference.
Looks to easier to me to have all instruments in a own container as subcontainers in the section container with the snaphots of parameters
I can ask myself : what insttruments are playing in the songsection at glance by opening the sectioncontainer.. i have the idea that this is easier to work in the arrangement.
Ok, doesn't matter with this 2 existing nesting levels, i can do it also with 2 nested levels, probably it is more difficult to have oversight in the arrangement.
I make some animated gif about this on wiki i think.