The Keyboard does not reflect the inversions

I don't understand it too ...when i play a C triad in rootposition the keyboard shows a second inversion C/G  AND in the Live Chord detection input field there is permanent "nil" message
I thought i could override the voiceleading by using number keys of my keyboard 1,2 and 3 for the triad inversions ?

Chord detection does not currently record the inversion played by the user.

It probably should. I noted this on the list.

The progression is for all instruments and can therefore not force a particular inversion on one instrument alone. Each instrument and its interpretation decide for themselves which inversion to play, depending on playing range, for example. 

Note that the bass note shown in the progression is not the same as chord inversion. Unless you tell the interpretation to obey inversions strictly.

I notice a pretty radically different interpretation of chords when Logic analyzes (one track) and when SFP does (all tracks)..  

As  work around, I import my whole midi file static into SFP..  Then go back and export just a bare root position chord pogression, import into another SFP arrangement, then replace that to my original import.  The chords are better, and I like the results better.  I hope at some point there is a 'weight' factor given to which track SFP pays most attention to when analyzing a track. 

Mark ... have you ever had a look at Liquid Notes?

It is much less sophisticated than SFP/E, but it has such a simple, straightforward workflow of midi to your daw. It is not really compositional, but it permits tweaking and reharmonizing of your arrangement.

Particularly, it does something like what your request for 'weight' factor. When you import a midi file, besides trying to identify drums/ percussion and bass, it divides tracks to be imported as either harmony or melody. Tracks imported as melody retain their passing notes and pretty well are preserved, where as tracks imported as harmony are used to analyze and recreate the harmonic structure as you vary the chord progressions.

Mark ... have you ever had a look at Liquid Notes?

 

It is much less sophisticated than SFP/E, but it has such a simple, straightforward workflow of midi to your daw. It is not really compositional, but it permits tweaking and reharmonizing of your arrangement.

My experience with this tool is that it recognizes only very simple chord progressions. And the imported phrases must represent the chords very clearly, otherwise it doesn't work at all. The reharmonization allows only to switch between the chord functions tonic, subdominant and dominant, to find replacement chords and to add tensions. No key changes, no modulations, no choice of scales, no chord palettes, no editing of chord change positions, no control over voice leading, no editing of phrases, no editing of the song structure. In my opinion it can not even compete with Harmony Navigator.

Thanks, Jürgen.

I think I'll pass on trying the demo. They have a 50% discount this month for the new v1.5 and their 'anniversary.' I watched a couple of videos and saw the part about defining the weighting of the music tracks to harmony or melody and thought it might meet Mark's back and forth, back and forth work flow.

While from the videos it appears you are right about the tonic, dominant and subdominant, you can also produce fairly sophisticated chord substitutions for each by adjusting what they call the 'Tensioner.' Actually, I think if you know your supertonics, subdominants, etc., I think you pretty much have the whole chord palette available to you ... but it doesn't look like it would help you figure that out.

 They have a 50% discount this month for the new v1.5 and their 'anniversary.' 

Yes, when I bought it, there was also an introductory offer of 99€. For this price it is ok, but the regular price of 159€ / 219$ looks a bit overpriced. 

It is certainly a nice idea to produce chord substitutions and tensions simply by adjusting sliders. But the efficiency of this principle is of course somewhat limited. And when I tried to import some little more complex MIDI files I got messages like "Sorry, no chords detected, can not import that file" while Synfire had no problem to recognize chords at the same files.

When I have some extra time in a couple of days, I'll create a midi chord progression, and show the results, in Logic, Band-in-a-box) and SFP..  Sometimes they are really off.. other times pretty close.  This of course is with static inport.

It's a little frustrating.  Often the misinterpretation, lets SFP  play a really nice piano part, when I bring back into Logic, Plenty of tension.. I do spend time hand editing notes in Logic, but I'd never be able to play a piano part like that.

I usually start in Logic with Tyros 4  I create a chord progression.. Tyros 4 generaters several rhythm tracks, I overdub or redo certain tracks with Tyros 4 sometimes laying down 4 different bass styles, and cutting each of 4 tracks into one bar each. then paste together a performance from that.. 

I go to SFP when I want to create parts beyond my technical ability (2 strokes not the greatest hand dexterity).. And with some of SFP commands,, it creates parts, I'd NEVER think of.

Just these last two days, I've been having much better luck by exporting Logic's Chord progression and bass track only.

SFP still gets it wrong, but the parts it creates fit in more easily with Logic.. 

I also use Band-in-a-box to generate melodies and solos (those usually take a good amount more work).. Or sometimes generate 2 or 3 band in a box melodies, and use them for different sections..

Often I edit them from Logic's score editor, to my liking.. Occassionally I put these into SFP and manipulate them there for interesting results.. 

Tonite I was working on a piece I actually had 4 parts created or radically manipulated by SFP, and I really like them. 

Still have issues with SFP changing MIDI channels to dynamic.. which is no good.. cause it comes up in wrong track in Tyross, effects, and eq's are totally thrown off..  I can jump between Band-in-a-box and Logic- MIDI channeling stays consistant.. Sometimes SFP is consistant other days (I always use static import, retain channels, use Tyros4 device).

The other day I went to solo a track in SFP and 4 tracks solo'd even though they were all different midi tracks and channels.. 

When using Logic be aware.  You can have different midi channels in a track, as long as that is set to a single track, in Tyros, (like guitar) all notes will be correct.. But before you export a Logic track, you have to manually check the event list and make all events on the desired midi channel..

I have several control sequences, which I sometimes add into a logic track, these are often in original track, so they must be set to correct channel,  otherwise when SFP imports it gets a lot of wrong notes.

Lately the last year, I've been  thinking more of tracks as individual lines or melodies, sometimes with harmony, but not straight ahead tracks.. So if some instrument is playing a passing 13th note in melody, SFP gets confused.  A lot of times SFP will get inversion wrong so an Em7 comes out as a G6..  

I've been doing fairly moving bass parts, so that could be part of the problem to. 

Perhaps if Andre explained a bit how SFP calculates chords, we could better prepare our tracks before importing from DAW into SFP .. 

Hi Shivaloca:

Thanx for sharing your information.  Music is wonderful, because it is so changeable.  It is not a strict static thing. The only thing static about music is the performance that is recorded.. Elton John once said his music was 'disoposeable'. It was meant to be used once and thrown away.  It can be adapted modified, reversed, turned inside out, and you have the possiblility of not just a new piece, but one that is better.. 

I try and go thru a number of parts to finish a song..  This last song, I did three different interpretations of the piano part in SFP, imported them back to Logic, chopped them into one bar seqments and got a great performance. 

Music does not have to be written in stone, One of the joys of music is to get 4 - 5 musicians and have them  perform a piece.. You have 5 human computers, listening to each other, performing and sometimes modifying the piece in real time..

Being self-taught can sometimes be a blessing, because you develop your own rules and techniques..  Think of music as a language.  In the world there are a huge number of languages, some very different, but they each have their own basic core rules.. It is good to learn these rules, then be aware you can 'break' them anytime you want..

Over years,  musical taste, much like fashion will change.  I was reading about the history of music and for a long time, a certain interval (I think I/IV - Fouths) was not allowed by the Catholic church, because  it came from the devil, or some story like that.  And apples were forbidden, and thought poisonous, and called the 'devil's fruit'..

Don't be afraid to change, modify your own music.  You can keep all versions, and decide which version you will show the world.. I have often modified a piece to the extent, it is almost a different piece.  Sometimes, I choose the later version.. Sometimes I change the melody and call it a different piece.. 

I use different techniques for music sometimes.. Sometimes I start in SFP, others I write at a piano with lyrics and chord changes written above it,, Other times I just play something.. Or use the Tyros 4. The Tyros will generate 8 rhythm parts as you play in real time.  So the song will often sound pretty much finished.. Other times I play with Band-in-a-box (been using for over 20 years).  When I really don't have any idea, I let BIAB compose a piece, and I work with that.

Other times, I created a chord progression, and start from that.. I found a book with hundreds of different chord progressions, sometimes I use one of those.. There should be no set it stone method to writing to music,. It all of course depends on the composers.. 

The last few years, I have been interested more in creating individual parts which may consist of 1 - 3 notes at any given time.. hence the music is open to more open to interpretation, cause the chords aren't so directly obvious as someone playing straight major, minor, 6ths, and 7ths all the time. 

John Lennon claimed to have taken the chord to Moonlight Sonata, reversed them, and created the song "Imagine".

Obviously my point, is music is very open ended. don't be afraid to experiment, modify, slice, dice, cut/paste it. There is no rule that says music must remain a static work of art, it can live and breath, and be interpreted by later generation of musics, to fit the current days standards, as indeed it quite often is..

As far as being blocked and depressed..  I've spent many years being treated for anxiety and depression. I find it much harder now to function in the real world...  I started playing music when I was  10,  writing poetry at 8.  I was awfully shy and lived in my own world of music, poems, and art..  When I was 15, I joined a band, we eventually became a 'big local success' and played all the time..  I was in several bands, some became very popular, and we opened for many famous bands of the day, The Beachboys, The Young Rascals, The Kingsmen, The Doors, The Shirelles, Chuck Berry.. 

I grew long hair, wore big sunglasses, and dressed to the teeth.. But I was playing a role, that wasn't me.. I had a lot of fun playing that role, and it got me to a lot of places.. That situation, like life and music, progressed into something quite different.

I'm retired now, and continue to do what I have all my life, spent as much time as possible playing and learning about music.  Music is a wonderful tool to work with mental issues.. It keeps me excited, it keeps me stable, it keeps me grounded.. I get 'ancy' if I go more than a few days without working on music. I've also had regular 'straight' jobs, but that was to raise enough money to buy instruments, computers, software, etc. 

I have other musician friends who are much the same.. I battled with drugs for a while, music got me thru it.. I've had several friends musician friends succumb to drugs and die. I've had friends get famous, and then lose it all and end up lower on the latter than when they started..

I even  went to a 'musical therapist' (a growing field, very promising for severely emotionally, intellectualy compromised individuals)..  I quit bands in my 30's and only worked in recording studios.. My musical therapy, was to sing and play in real time. I don't have a great voice. but boy did I come out feeling better.. 

Scientiests are still pondering the mysteries of music.. It was probably the first language.. Man would imitate the sounds he heard from other animals..

For me, the Beatles, are my all time favorite group.  I even got to see them in 1966 in Boston..  A number of times thru the years, I would go back to listening to them nite and day.. For most of us, the music from our teens, early 20's has a special place in our hearts,, I think, cause the brain links special events with the music we were listening to at the time.

There was a very sad song written by Donovan (Scottish folk singer from 60's) It was called 'Lalena', when I'm really depressed, I will listen to that song for 20 - 60 listenings in a row..  It is an extremely sad song, and it soothes me..

Quite often when I work on a piece, I'll leave the computer on repeating playing my new song, it excites me, and I also get ideas of how to spice it up more too.

Good luck with your music, don't be afraid to 'break rules' and experiment with new ideas and approaches.. The surprises are sometimes the greatest part of life.. Andre has given us a tool, that no other music software can do..  It is a challenge (to say the least), but the rewards we will reap from it, make it worth the effort.