Catanya

I'm not sure there's a Catanya for PC any more. But you should be able to achieve pretty much the same with Synfire, no?

Applying rhythms etc.

(http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=300884&sid=8faaa42b1f1986…)
it has  no preset ready to use as Catanya   but you can import your own midi files ( drag n drop ) ..

On a similar note, I don't know why a polyphonic arp is some voodo magic, there's a ton of arp plugins but for some reason none of them does polyphonic arpeggioes.

A 30 year old synth can do it, why can't any software plugin do it?

Catanya doesn't do anything the purple and magenta symbols couldn't already do in Synfire. And Synfire offers the intelligence to make the results sound smooth. 

If you can get hold of the phrases you need as MIDI files and import them into a library, you will have all arps available for immediate use in Synfire. 

A 30 year old synth can do it, why can't any software plugin do it?

Depends on what you call a polyphinic arp and what your expectations are. Rendering polyphonic phrases against an arbitrary progression is indeed a tough challenge, unless you can live with distorted phrases and hefty pitch leaps on transitions. For some electronic music, this might not be an issue. Bleeps stay bleeps. For any music that remotely resembles a human perfomance, these artifacts are very undesirable.   

Numerology has a matrix arp.
It takes the incomming notes from lets say a chord (doubled for more incoming notes),and with this you can draw sequences that always play notes from the input. These can be polyphonic also.

Catanya doesn't do anything the purple and magenta symbols couldn't already do in Synfire.

Yes of course, but Catanya and its phrase editing window makes it possible to modify a phrase in realtime while a sequence is running.
It can be much fun, to have a HN/Synfire chord palette and some Catanya phrase editing windows open simultaneously. The palette feeds Catanya with chords. Then one can run a live session, surfing through chords (at the chord palette) and transforming the phrases (at the Catanya) simultaneously.

Would be cool to have some realtime phrase editing features at Synfire's sketches, too.

Ups, this was a reply to Andre, but for some reason it didn't quote the post even though I hit reply button.

Hmm hard to explain, but for example the access virus has what I'd call a polyphonic arp, it's years of fun and very inspiring to play around with.

Set it to a pattern, play C, E, G all at the same time and you'd just play a chord in a rhytmic pattern.

Now insted first hit C, wait  an 8th note, then press E, wait a 16th note and play the G, now you have each note playing the pattern, but each one offset by however long you waited between notes, creating wonderfully diverse polyrhytmic patterns on the fly.

Hi

Kirnu Cream is very advanced and Cthulhu is also very good too

Kirnu Cream
(http://www.kirnuarp.com/)

Cthulhu
(http://www.xferrecords.com/products/cthulhu)

Is it possible that Synfire can record the output of Catanya ?,  because before there are realtime phrase editing features in Synfire.
Perhaps never and in that case it is good to have some phrase generators.     

Is it possible that Synfire can record the output of Catanya ?

Yes, the MIDI output of Catanya can be recorded in Synfire or in your DAW. It is not like the phrase generators of Halion and Vienna Instruments Pro for example, where you don't have access to the MIDI data of the generated phrases. At Catanya you can do everything with them.

Yes, it is Catanya as a midi track and there is a another Vsti instrument below this track who is using the generated midi data (notes etc) as his midi in

Yes, the MIDI output of Catanya can be recorded in Synfire or in your DAW

In one operation record instantly the instrument Vsti midi track fed by Catanya.

Do I load cinematic strings as an instrument and use Thesys as an insert .

Don't know how Thesys works in detail. The next Synfire update will allow an insert effect after each instrument plug-in. Maybe that is helpful here.

@richardbartlett

Richard, I think you''re trying to use vst that have different uses. Thesys, Catanya, Cthulu are MIDI plugins they are usually used in the context of a DAW where you have a track with the midi plugin inserted then you insert let's say a synth track with the input pointing to the output of the MIDI track, so you can drive the synth with the midi data coming from the midi plugin.

Now, my question is: Why should you want to use a midi plugin in synfire?Am I missing something here?

Synfire acts has midi plugin plus and much much much much much more. Basickly even if it's possible to use it in synfire (I have no idea but probably is not possible)  the MIDI plugin should come first in the chain like so:

MIDI plugin -> Synfire -> synth

so Synfire can interpret midi data and transform it using its interpretation brain.

Andre, have I said bulshit?Is this possible in Synfire?

I thing what you want , tell me if I'm wrong, is to use the patterns in catanya and others within synfire if this is what you want just export the patterns as midi and reimport it in synfire.

hope I understood well, let us know

Synfire can interpret midi data and transform it using its interpretation brain. Is this possible in Synfire?

Yes.

But why not use the different symbols to create cool ostinatos?  The power of figure symbols seems to be underestimated. There is no need to use a step sequencer. Just fill a row of 1/8 or 1/16 symbols, switch them to different colors in a round robin fashion (or alternating) and get surprised by the outcome when this is rendered against a cool progression.

This is how Synfire works: Symbols are sort of "programmable" mappings. The greatest advantage lies in that the output makes real sense, induces a musical concept behind the patterns generated. The human ear can distinguish between nice randomness and true structure. 

it's what I was thinking..Synfire can do much more than an arpeggiator, so why use it??

but my question was: is it possible to use MIDI plugin inside synfire?

There is no need to use a step sequencer. Just fill a row of 1/8 or 1/16 symbols, switch them to different colors in a round robin fashion (or alternating) and get surprised by the outcome when this is rendered against a cool progression.

Yes, but using a step sequencer has the advatage, that the phrases can be changed directly while they are playing. For arpeggio types of phrases for example, where voice leading is not so important, they are a useful addition to Synfire.

What bothers me a bit, especially at the sketches, is when you want to change something at the phrases, you have to stop, make your changes (eventually load a new sketch) and then start again. I know, Synfire first needs to render the output before it can start to play the changed phrases. But can't the rendering be executed in the background while the arrangement or the sketch is running?

But can't the rendering be executed in the background while the arrangement or the sketch is running?

It is already doing this, however only in loop mode. A short time before the next loop, the changed music is rendered and replaced. 

is it possible to use MIDI plugin inside synfire

With the next update, yes, if it's a VST (AudioUnits do not support MIDI output). However, not really "inside" Synfire. The MIDI plug-in can be used as an instrument where Synfire output goes to. The actual synth is loaded as an "insert fx", .i.r chained behind the MIDI plugin:

Synfire -> MIDI plug-in -> Synth/Sampler

I am able to route midi into SFP from Thesys, Catanya, Chtulhu, and others. the problem i am having is i need to be able to record all of these simultaneously. Will the new version have multiple track record?

It is already doing this, however only in loop mode. A short time before the next loop, the changed music is rendered and replaced. 

Really? Cool! I must admit that I have actually not even tried it. At least not in loop mode. 

@duderanch: I am able to route midi into SFP from Thesys, Catanya, Chtulhu, and others. the problem i am having is i need to be able to record all of these simultaneously. Will the new version have multiple track record?

I am trying to understand the workflow you are trying to achieve.

Why do you say you 'need' to record the output of these instruments simultaneoulsly?

Do you mean 'need' as in 'must' to accomplish something? Or do you mean 'need' as in would 'like/ prefer to?'

It is not easy for me to see what advantage you would have over simply recording these straight to midi in your daw and then feeding the midi to Synfire later. Multitrack midi recording generally makes little sense, as one can only play one instrument at a time, although, understandably a synthist or keyboard player could play several instruments two at a time using different hands and maybe instersperse a 3rd or 4th keyboard already set up from time ot time.

All the midi instruments you name produce predicatable 'every time the same' midi output once they are initially 'programmed.'

Unless you have some vision for some live super performance, I'm having trouble imagining how this would be useful.

Anyway, I would imagine that even were multitrack midi recording available, we would still have to account for the processing lag of the Synfire AI before output.

Explain more, please.