Posted
I. ONE WINDOW APP (first sketch)
Inspired by the darker color scheme of Synfire i tried to make a sample for an one window application. The only new thing is the integrated file browser for libraries, arragement etc. All other elements are the same. The idea is 1. have more fun to work with the application, 2. drag & drop where is possible, 3. show 1-4 windows at the same time, 4. every window can be resize and is undockable for a second monitor, 5. the plugin (VST) can directly load in the container view, 6. a better parameter view.
I do not know if it's doable, but it's charming. May be to the way of a great Music Prototyping DAW. Synfire has the capability. On the Mac the internal GM-Instruments are not usable its to low. Maybe Synfire can use for the samples some free VSTs for Mac and PC (TAL, Tyrell etc.).
II. PHRASE LIVE PLAYER
The second thing is, that i can play guitar but not piano or an other classical instrument. To get more feeling i wish i could play the phrase live with the keyboard on one fingerprint.
Mi., 08.02.2012 - 20:18 Permalink
The first idea is nice. I'm a bit confused about the 2nd idea.
The only way I could see to implement it was to teach SFP each chord that would be represented by a note. So you could play this in realtime. Otherwise it would be a hopeless confusion of multi options seeing as there are so many chords in a pallette.
Could you explain more?
Mi., 08.02.2012 - 21:17 Permalink
Some DAW have MIDI effects which can map single notes to chords. In Cubase it is called "Chorder". This way you can generate chords from single notes which you play on a keybord. You can use these chords as an input for Synfire (or HN) and Synfire is able to control the chord selection at the palette from this input. I didn't test it, but I think this setup does exactly what you are looking for.II. PHRASE LIVE PLAYER
The second thing is, that i can play guitar but not piano or an other classical instrument. To get more feeling i wish i could play the phrase live with the keyboard on one fingerprint.
Mi., 08.02.2012 - 21:30 Permalink
Thanks for the nice mockups!
The phrase player idea is great. Assinging the chords to keys could be done with a simple "Learn" button. I noted this on our suggestions list.
A single-window layout is great for many situations, but it also introduces limitations. The HN2 song editor (also included with Synfire, btw) already makes use of it to some extent: The Harmonizer is integrated as a tab. We plan on doing the same with Synfire too.
Moving a window to a tab however is only useful if only a single instance is needed at any one time. Talking about libraries, I often have many instances open side by side (three and more), so I can reorganize them with drag & drop. Libraries are regular documents that can be edited independently. Closely associating them with an arrangement is to much a limitation. Integrating a palette is also not useful, because it is (1) too large to fit anywhere, and (2) often spawned in 2-3 instances to deal with key changes. I think you get the idea why this is not trivial.
The thing that concerns me most however is that a single-window layout heavily influences the workflow. Or the other way around: If there was a known workflow that 80% of all users are using, a single-window layout could be designed to optimally support it (as many DAWs already do). However, as of today, we have no idea yet which of the countless possible worklows will eventually become the most commonly used one (or how many of them). Therefore we will still need to wait and see how the usage of Synfire evolves and then reduce the window layout according to this experience. Until then I would like to keep the maximum flexibility, even though it is not the most elegant solution.
Mi., 08.02.2012 - 23:07 Permalink
Even better than a "phrase player" would be an "accompaniment player", with the same performance as the "chord palette" but mapped to a midi keyboard (midi learn)
Mi., 08.02.2012 - 23:25 Permalink
discussion:
When i did the sketch i had only a rough idea for a one window app and i didnt know where it ended. The result of the first sketch looks very interesting and while i copy & paste the objects to a one window layout i realized that it was not easy. By the way, in the sketch i forgot the very important vector-editing icons (not exist yet) in the edit-window. The benefits of an one window is you get ALL information you need, without addional clicking, scrolling etc. and always on the right/same place, no hidden functions in deep menus. There is a reason why its so popular. Not all functions you will get in a one window - but the most important EDITING features.
My intention is not only to have an one window app - some things i want it easier to handle.
- Toolbars and Palettes (like Photoshop)
- vector-editing icons in the edit-window
- less menus
- a Loop-Button in the transport area
- a more intelligent cursor
- direct container information (f.e. bar length)
- better snap to grid
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in deutsch wäre es etwas einfacher gewesen
Do., 09.02.2012 - 00:25 Permalink
The thing that concerns me most however is that a single-window layout heavily influences the workflow. Or the other way around: If there was a known workflow that 80% of all users are using, a single-window layout could be designed to optimally support it (as many DAWs already do). However, as of today, we have no idea yet which of the countless possible worklows will eventually become the most commonly used one (or how many of them). Therefore we will still need to wait and see how the usage of Synfire evolves and then reduce the window layout according to this experience. Until then I would like to keep the maximum flexibility, even though it is not the most elegant solution.
Perhaps you can work out with some layout templates.. for the user to choose to work with and i know it is easy written by me this idea.
Further is not immidiately necessary to make dozens of tutorials.
I think one structured tutorial for working with the container basics for setting up a arrangement is at least necessary.
Further i am curious what you are arranging with SFP, because you were enthousiatic about the idea to do more with music making.
Sa., 25.02.2012 - 23:55 Permalink
The one window approach (I think adopted by all the major DAWS), looks appealing at first.. But like Andrew I like to have 3 - 8 libraries, often a few phrase pools, and a 2nd or 3rd arrangement going.. Sometimes I take stuff from one arrangement and move it to another. I might have a few phrases pools, so I can A=B the,
Maybe you could start with a one window and have other windows pop out when needed and retract when not.
I would really like to see SFP open up exactly the way I left a project, libraries, audio,- midi set up etc.