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Container Import

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Since Synfire 2 no longer provides the feature to import containers directly from another arrangement via the import dialog, you have to think about how to deal with this situation. The officially suggested workflow is now to import each instrument individually, using the sound setup wizard to adjust the sound accordingly. I will illustrate, based on my personal workflow, why this is not a particularly good idea for me:

I assume that most users edit the entire composition in a single arrangement when working on a project. So they have a single arrangement file where everything takes place. However, with me, it's different. For me, it's always the case that for a single project, the editing is spread over a whole number of arrangement files. For example, I often end up with different versions of the same section of the composition (for example, three different versions of the intro, some more for the middle sections, and then a couple of versions for the outro). All of these parts and versions are each kept in their own arrangement file. Then comes the time when everything is combined into one overall composition. That means I try out which parts fit together best. A new arrangement file is then opened, into which a few individual parts are copied and tested in the overall context. If it doesn't fit, another combination is tried out. 

All this obviously leads to countless container import operations. Due to the ingenious concept of the "Global Rack", this has worked without any problems so far. After all, all arrangement files involved in this process belong to the same project and therefore have the same sound setup based on a single Global Rack.  The only thing you usually had to do in the container import dialog was to press "OK". Maybe you still had to adjust the global settings, like "Inheritance", but that was it. The proposed new workflow for container import is almost useless for this use case. It means hundreds of drags and drops and clicks. If I were to do it that way, I can make an appointment with an orthopedist right now.

I understand that perhaps you should not implement a feature that only works reliably in this special case. But the basic possibility to keep individual parts of the composition in separate arrangements should be kept. For this I would have an idea:

Couldn't it be made possible to keep multiple arrangements in a single project file? This would ensure that all these arrangements have the same sound setup and container exchange between them would not be a problem. You could have tabs labeled "Arrangement 1", "Arrangement 2", etc. Just like in Excel, where you have tabs for several spreadsheets. I've already noticed that the previous "Arrangement" tab is now called "Structure". So it would be no problem to introduce new tabs with the name "Arrangement", right?


Tue, 2022-05-10 - 13:44 Permalink

> Couldn't it be made possible to keep multiple arrangements in a single project file?

As a workaround, could just storing different versions of your piece consecutively in a very long arrangment work perhaps?

Tue, 2022-05-10 - 13:59 Permalink

This is not such a good idea, since containers placed one after the other tend to interact and make friends. That's the AI thing, you know? 

 

Tue, 2022-05-10 - 18:26 Permalink

Thanks for making the case for container import. I see it makes sense when you have many arrangements based on the same (global) instruments. 

Multiple root containers on tabs would be possible, but switching between tabs is not optimal for drag & drop. You would be confined to copy & paste. It is certainly a challenge to make a good user interface for that. 

Tue, 2022-05-10 - 18:59 Permalink

Multiple root containers on tabs would be possible, but switching between tabs is not optimal for drag & drop. 

My proposal for this would be: You drag the container to the desired tab and while you hold the mouse button, the tab opens. Then you can drag the container at the right place in the new arrangement.

Just like in Windows, when you want to drag something to a minimized window. You drag it to the icon in the taskbar and while holding the mouse button, the window will then open and you can complete the dragging action. Would be cool and intuitive in my opinion. Of course, I don't know how difficult this is to realize from a programming point of view. Copy/paste would also be ok.

Holding multiple arrangements in one file would also help to clean up my file organization which is always a total mess. If I take a break for a few days, I don't know what all these files are anymore. 

Wed, 2022-05-11 - 10:20 Permalink

The simpler approach which I think fits the Synfire philosophy is to make it possible to store arrangement structures in the library, including the embedded library. After all, the structure object is just data isn't it?

Wed, 2022-05-11 - 12:02 Permalink

Yes, that of course would also be a solution. And it would be even more flexible than my proposal. However, I guess, it would probably have the same implications as the previous container import dialog when importing that data from the library to an arrangement.

 

Wed, 2022-05-11 - 14:09 Permalink

You can already drop a container into a library. It will make a folder with a copy of all its phrases. Since 2.0.3 it will also copy the sounds. 

However, that's only a flat collection of phrases. A nested container structure is indeed "just data", albeit with a lot of references to (and dependencies on) outside data that is not available in a library.

The approach of having multiple root containers is more viable.