Posted
(https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?url=https%3A//api.soundcloud.com/track…)
Synfire and Mulab working together... a midi from mulab translated in Synfire and recorded in Mulab again..try to get the original like in MUlab what sounds fantastic.
It is a test setup/song.
It seems that the bass is not at the right timing ..well i listen to the original and thought it was ok, but i am still not sure. ( i listen again and the original has he same timing--it means that the recording is done on the right way: by trial and error and you need a rewire rack in Mulab )
One could think that the loopbackdriver has a latency and therefore the bass sounds strange, but loopbe loopbackdriver has a high quality as they promote it.
In mulab it is easier to do automations then in Synfire and the whole rack handling. It has a modular editor to make your own sound, panels...and more.
Thu, 2015-12-31 - 11:36 Permalink
Hey Jan,
One thing that comes to mind first and that might be a problem:
You have to understand that Mulab has no PDC. (Plugin Delay Compensation)
Synfire has. Means because every plugin introduces some kind of latency (some very little, some very much)
it's pretty difficult to get the same results in MuLab as in a host that has PDC.
Sometimes impossible to get any decend result at all.
Process heavy stuff with a lot of VSTi and Effects processing
will go completely out of sync in Mulab.
Check this with any kind of pitch-shift plugin on a track
and you understand immedialty what the problem is.
Just to let you know.. :)
Best,
tL.
(Besides: Throw in the fact that ML is still 32 bit (on OSX at least) and has some other quirks with the JUCE framework of some plugins on OSX
10.10 and up and it's pretty much game over for a lot of people. Thats why it is still so "underground" , because otherwise
it's a fantastic little app. I worked with it myself and build a lot of MUX Devices and Panels myself. I also know that JO is already in the
middle of writing ML7, I have high hopes for that... :))
Thu, 2015-12-31 - 14:36 Permalink
Thanks Lytz1!
I import a midi from Mulab..a demo song into Synfire and then connect Synfire with Mulab with a loopbackdriver.
Then i record the midi from Synfire into Mulab ..and mixdown there the song, so Synfire is not involved here and there is not a PDC issue as i see it now...you agree?
If the timing of the notes in Synfire and the recorded notes in MUlab are accurate ( the same as from the exported midi) then PDC is the same in Synfire
The loopBE loopbackdriver is precise in timing ? ..well the advertise with that it is.
Only automation has to be added afterwards..to try to get the same result as in Mulab for fx ( it can never 100 % be the same because the midi from mulab is chanced by Synfire..)
Or do i miss something here?
As i understand it well: plugin delay compensation means that all plugins get he same delay time : they are in sync wich eachother
The Mulab synths does have different delay time ( because there is no PDC feature yet), so if the timing of the recorded midi notes is the same for the song in Mulab and recorded by Synfire in Mulab..then the song is the same ( but the import midi timing is become probably different and there is the sync differences with Synfire and Mulab via rewire..)
The main problem why a Mulab song not can be made the same as in Synfire is probably the other midi content of Synfire..it can never be the same
Right now i am trying to do a translation of the demo song Pure..let see if it possible to get a convinct song..
Thu, 2015-12-31 - 14:25 Permalink
Hey Jan,
not necessarily. Synfire *has* PDC, Mulab doesn't.
So when you have VSTis that introduce latency, Mulab will not compensate for this,
leaving you with latency that you have to fix manually.
(While Synfire does this automatically (like Cubase, Logic, PT11, Studio One, etc. as well)
So potentially its not the Midi that is wrong, but the unsolved Latency introduced by VSTi Instruments in MuLab.
Again, that's just an educated guess, the problem might be as well elsewhere,
but it sure sounds like this might be an issue.
The only DAWs I know that still do not have automatic PDC are Mulab and Energy XT which is a huge oversight.
(energyXT basically is abandonware already, so that doesn't really count... :) )
If you have the time you might repeat the process with Cubase.
If this problem is gone when using Cubase, you will know for sure that it is a MuLab PDC issue!
Best,
tL.
Thu, 2015-12-31 - 14:45 Permalink
Hi Lytz1,
When midi potentially is not wrong, then the only problem to get the same song in Synfire as in Mulab is that the midi content is different
I am using the same synths in the loopback setup as in Mulab demo song itself ..so if there is a delay it doensn't matter
Right now am trying now to do the demo song Pure as exercise.
Jan
Thu, 2015-12-31 - 15:24 Permalink
jan have you tried playing the song from synfire using the same vsti as in mulab but using the engine? That should sound the same as driving mulab via loopback drivers from synfire except for any latency in the loopback or mulab. Might help decide where the problem lies. If however you are complaining that the song is different to the very original version in mulab before you imported into synfire, that is to be expected and you know why.
Also, I know you say that the loopbe drivers are low latency but from my experience this is relative and dependant on the load on the computer. It definately does not have the sample accurate timing of the synfire drone setup. I had all sorts of slight timing issues before Synfire introduced their drone idea.
Thu, 2015-12-31 - 18:42 Permalink
Blacksun,
No, i am not complaining that is a given fact that Synfire is changing the midi content..and it will be for ever.
For new composing it is not relevant..
I did not noticed any problems so far with Synfire-Mulab and Loopback.
Composing with Mulab is a new setup..although i do have Cubase too, but for now i am doing something with Mulab and as @Lytz1 has written : Mulab gets perhaps also a PDC feature ( and jo the developer knowing this will be added too..at a certain time).
Yes, i could also use the midi drones now in Mulab (that is a good point from you) for Vsti only..why not...but PDC will occur then and perhaps are the native soundmodules in Mulab optimised for PDC ?
If however you are complaining that the song is different to the very original version in mulab before you imported into synfire, that is to be expected and you know why.
Thu, 2015-12-31 - 20:04 Permalink
By the way i do see in the modular session editor of mulab that a cognitone drone can be assigned to a native mulab rack too!
( the cognitone module has 6 audio outs ..so you need 3 of them to get 16 midi channels..is PDC fixed in Mulab then it must be very precise working )
I used the loopbackdriver for the native Mulab soundmodules , but wit some drones it is better connected : Synfire and Mulab and no need more of recording midi in Mulab ( a time saver )..drag the midi into Mulab.
Then i must stop using the loopbackdriver ...thanks ( responsible for this is )is @Blacksun he brings me on this option..all credits for him.
