Posted
This is a first try, but like to see a better oversight in the container view what instruments are doing( like in a traditional DAW)
The harmony i like to see in one row and probably this container must be on top...something to improve?
Thu, 2012-10-25 - 17:53 Permalink
I think Mark Styles requested a 'read out' piano roll, i.e., not an editable one, of the generated midi output. Cubase does a neat trick where you can use track colors so when you open multiple tracks in the piano roll editor, you identify the different source tracks by the colors of the notes.
This helps you see where and how the voices interact. This would be somewhat complex ... seems like we want every Cubase feature in SFP! ... but gives you an idea of which voice's phrase you might want to change to sit better with the other instruments.
Prado
Thu, 2012-10-25 - 18:44 Permalink
This helps you see where and how the voices interact. This would be somewhat complex ... seems like we want every Cubase feature in SFP! ... but gives you an idea of which voice's phrase you might want to change to sit better with the other instruments.
In how far you can mimic your DAW arrangement in SFE is to be (seen) examined with the drones
Fri, 2012-10-26 - 04:22 Permalink
Hi Janamdo:
I believe you go to the root container... It shows you where there is activity in each track, it's in grey, it also says what container it's in.. This will suffice in given the user a overview of where things are happening.. You can look at the root container and see the different drum patterns. In your example, I see you have harmony in two containers, but they look like the same 4 bar progression here. What was your intent, or am I missing something? My suggestion is download other people's cognac files, see what they do, and then try experiments for yourself, and find the method that works best for you. For a while I was always putting the chord progression in a container by itself, so I could easily try new ideas..
Adding variations of instrument parts into seperate containers and sprinkling around the arrangement, can give some interesting results, but sooner or later, you don't know what you're doing. or why a track is not acting as expected.
It's pretty hard to ask a new SFP user, to forget what he's spent a lifetime learning and do it a different way.. That of course is what keeps our minds sharp. (but can also give a lot of frustration)
Since I can't use drones in Logic Pro on Mac with external MIDI hardware - I export the SFP file and import into Logic, Look at it in piano roll and score editors, makes notes, of where I want things to go, then go back to work in SFP.
I do a lot of experimenting, once I feel that the piece is in a state I like. I export it from SFP and then re-import it static back into SFP . I now a very clean linear view of it.. And I can ascertain the effect two or three containers of parameters might have on an instrument.. I progress forward from there...
If I don't like the direction it's going. I drag new parts into a library, and open old version, and then drag in the new parts from the library, I quite often use hat trick, create and add new parts and then go back and put them into an earlier version of song. It makes for some interesting results
Andrew prefers keeping containers small and compact, but face it sooner or later you're gonna have to committ to a format. That is sometimes the point I go linear.
Hell back in the OLD days of analog 4 tracks, I had to put the whole band on a stereo two track, leaving two tracks for voices and overdubs. There no room for indecision. In those days you were forced to commit. And if after a while, you didn't like it - you had to record the whole band together. or cut and tape different takes together to get a good performance.v Then came 8 tracks, 12 tracks, 24 tracks. Actually cutting my teeth on 4 track Tascams, later 8 tracks was a hard good lesson. Now you talk about slicing up 2 inch 24 track tapes, and pasting back together in a different order, that takes balls and experience. You risk hours and hundreds of dollars of studio billing time.. Not a job for the weak of heart.
Now because of these DAWs with unlimited tracks, I'm plagued by indecision in my music - hell, it's even crept into my life, if we could just keep all our options open in real life like you can in a DAW. Life would be - pretty much like it is today.. A lot of people wondering around not knowing what the hell they are doing..
Most of us here are pretty comitted to whatever DAW we've been using.. I'm on Logic for almost 30 years. Although I occassionally get frustrated with it, or wish it had an equivalent command like in Cubase or Nuendo, I've invested too much time and money. I know each of us here feel the same way about the software we've been using..
Learning something like SFP, SFE, or HN, really takes some getting adjusted to. But it can be done.
Fri, 2012-10-26 - 12:21 Permalink
Hi Mark
Modern times..a changed world what never comes back again and to think about with warm feelings
( can be also giving a strong feeling of missing all those loving moments of the past .. )
Looking back what you have done and how it went in those old days in the music business..fascinating.
I believe you go to the root container... It shows you where there is activity in each track, it's in grey, it also says what container it's in.. This will suffice in given the user a overview of where things are happening.. You can look at the root container and see the different drum patterns. In your example, I see you have harmony in two containers, but they look like the same 4 bar progression here. What was your intent, or am I missing something? My suggestion is download other people's cognac files, see what they do, and then try experiments for yourself, and find the method that works best for you. For a while I was always putting the chord progression in a container by itself, so I could easily try new ideas..
The rootcontainer there starts everything..from there you assign new containers with instrument phrases from the rootcontainer (Note: the option: View>> parameter Explanations helps to get a oversight in the rootcontainer)
I added a new song example 2,where the harmony container now is divided
( in the first example it is one long container and on the wrong place .. it must be on the top otherwise the vocals are not affected by the chords )
Now every songsection has is own harmony container
Note: the option: View>> parameter Explanations helps to get a oversight in the rootcontainer
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Experimenting..
When i convert this arrangment (back)to a sketch .. and try to play this live this with the keyboard ( live chord detection) or live pallette there is no songpointer..and try to play with harmony of th esongsections live
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Anohter point as you study the instrument assigning in the songsections--> there are not instruments assigned to these containers yet ( they still sit in the rootcontainer )..only the vocal instruments are assigned to the container vocal 1 and vocal 1+2
Sat, 2012-10-27 - 11:20 Permalink
( look at the rebuild example Song example2 )
After the thread : Pause not visualized correctly by top level container figure preview it is clear that the songstructure not is reflected in the rootcontainer
The only place to to get a songstructure is in the container view itself.
For SFP not a problem to build a songstructure with unlimited nested containers, but for SFexpress with only 2 nested containers it becomes impossible.
Like in HN2(instrumentview) you can go to the Mixerview and click on the containers.
Example : click on intro shows that the fiddle and guitar is pauzed
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Now i have the same arrangment view as in HN2 in the mixerview of SFE and clicking on the section containers
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Extra is in SFE a harmony container and a own container (track) for the two vocal instruments
Supose i make a second container for the second vocal and add pauze container ( that is not possible?) to the arrangment?
What can i do more in SFE in the arrangement view than in HN2 to get a better oversight of the songstructure.. i do have a max 2 nested container levels ?
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Perhaps a idea for a new feature in SFE !: showing the rootcontainer instruments in a songsection without doing this by hand : a songsection container ( automatic sectioning ) shows the lanes of the rootcontainer instruments--> no it must be done by hand assigning the instrument (phrase) to the automatic songsectioning container ( is this possible for this type of container ? )
How to bring the rootcontainer instruments to a songsection container with only a name on it (it is a empty container) ?
So this cannot be automatic ( without hand ) ..it must be by hand.. if you assign a instrument in a songsection..its lane is showing up in the songsection container
Or perhaps this feature can also be used by a default container : filling this with lanes of the rootcontainer instrument if you assign them in a container.
Note:
The songsection container gives the possibility to add a new nested container and the 2 nested level limit is used
Suppose the lanes of the instruments are showing up in the songsection container (the new feature)..what cani do with the individual instruments?.. example.. i see a guitar in lane 2 ..let make a variation on the figure..to try out --> reached nested level of 2
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