Posted
To construct chords on a Halion keyboard I need to be able to see which chord tones have been entered via the arrangement view (structure).
- can note on/off midi notes switch be set to chord symbol for constructing abstract chords (these are independent of the general chord progression) ?
- Can the output screen also be extended upwards (by dragging) when the abstract chord input works.
It is still unclear how the current abstract chord action works?
Wed, 2022-05-25 - 19:38 Permalink
which chord tones have been entered via the arrangement view
As far as I understand Synfire (I am a beginner) you enter symbols not chord tones.
Symbols translate while rendering with a harmonic context and many other side conditions (parameters) like interpretation to actual tones/notes.
current abstract chord action
What is this? Cannot find this in the manual.
Your question is hard to understand.
Can you phrase it so that its easier to understand?
Wed, 2022-05-25 - 20:39 Permalink
>As far as I understand Synfire (I am a beginner) you enter symbols not chord tones.>
This is correct that symbols are introduced: the green symbols represent the chord tones/notes.
Abstraction (chords) was a feature of earlier version of Synfire.
With "abstraction" applied to a chord, such a chord could stand on its own without being controlled from the chord progression.
My question is rather meant for Cognitone, as it requires a possible modification of the software.
My intention is to include an "abstract" chord progression in Synfire to drive a particular instrument in Halion VST.
This is currently not possible because I am not able to enter these (abstract) chords and it is unclear how the old abstraction feature( does not exists anymore) works in the new Synfire version.
EDIT
Input chord tones:
If I activate a symbol (chord tone) in the structure view on an instrument track, then this is not visible on a keyboard keystroke of the Halion VST..so there is no instrument to be heard.
If I want to enter a chord, I must see if the right piano key is selected and then pressed.
Via midi message: note on/off
Thu, 2022-05-26 - 00:08 Permalink
I thought there was another menu option outside the midi file import to abstract chords in the previous version of Synfire ?
Is about me being able to create chords for the Halion VST chord sounds.
If all chords are going to be dictated by a chord progression anyway and cannot be separate from the chord progression ?
Then the Halion chords should be written in an absolute pitch, like drums.
In the first place, there must be the possibility to make the Halion VST chords easily in Synfire... then I'll see if there is something to do with it musically.
Forgotten, but just messing with "abstraction".
Thu, 2022-05-26 - 01:20 Permalink
if you can trigger those hallion chords via a midi controller (pads or keys), you just need synfire to send the same midi information. If notes then this has to be static pitches or if cc then using the controller functions in synfire. You will have to look up the midi implementation tables for hallion to work out what to do in synfire.
An alternative approach is to export the midi patterns hallion generates when playing chords (its in the menu somewhere) and then import those into a library. You then can use them with hallion in its normal (non chord mode) although for a perfect match again you would have to use static pitches.
Thu, 2022-05-26 - 10:02 Permalink
>An alternative approach is to export the midi patterns hallion generates when playing chords (its in the menu somewhere) and then import those into a library. You then can use them with hallion in its normal (non chord mode) although for a perfect match again you would have to use static pitches.
Indeed, as soon as you convert these Halion midi patterns in Synfire to phrases it no longer works and you get other instrument sounds.
I have not yet tried recording Halion chord pads via a controller in Synfire.
How to use the Halion VST chord pads in Cubase itself is also not clear to me yet.
Cubase also has built-in chord pads and I suspect that the Halion pads can be triggered with these.
Thanks.
How to Get the Most out of the Chord Pads in Cubase | Q&A with Greg Ondo - Bing video
Thu, 2022-05-26 - 10:04 Permalink
You missunderstood me, using the midi phrases exported from hallion and then imported into a synfire library would require hallion be turned into a normal multi-timbral instrument not a chord machine. Likewise when suggesting you look at triggering the chords via a controller I meant outside of synfire, either direct or via cubase. The problem you have with trying to use hallion as a chord machine is that there may be zero connection between the note you play and the chord that plays. So a C1 note might trigger a Gminor9th chord, if you are lucky a C1 note might generate some kind of C based chord. You would get this information from the midi implementation chart for hallion. If there is no connection between the two then there is no information synfire can use to generate a musically sounding chord, a bit like having a sampler loaded with a G sound triggering with a C note, synfire will be assuming a c note plays a c note so the music generate would sound odd at best.
Thu, 2022-05-26 - 10:24 Permalink
I once played the Halion chord pads instruments in Synfire, with some settings.
But the Halion phrase became a Synfire phrase and then it didn't work anymore, maybe as an absolute pitch it did.
Maybe I can use the chord trigger pads in Cubase as a controller to trigger the Halion chord pads ?
A midi out from Cubase to Synfire via midi loopback connection.
Taking over the chords from Halion ( checking with Halion in Cubase ) into Synfire with the Cubase chord pads.
Am not an expert in this.
Thu, 2022-05-26 - 12:32 Permalink
found this which may help specific to the hallion guitar but might give you some ideas... the pink/red keys which cause the synth to play the chord and how to play it (strum, muted, etc) would probably have to be setup as a key switch in the device. You might need two instruments for the rest of the stuff, one to generate a bass/static note to select the chord to play (depending how you map the note to a chord) and a second with a playing range of an octave to select the strings of the guitar.
Thu, 2022-05-26 - 13:04 Permalink
Thanks for the video to play guitar in Cubase!
Goes via key switching and for Synfire there is also a key switching mechanism for classical music for example with all their keyswitches to use.
Tried a bit myself to record a "take" in Synfire as input to the harmonizer.
I set the keyswitches on Halion to be out of range of the chords.
This pad sound : Joshua Pad is thus recorded statically and is independent of a chord progression in Synfire.
Now the chord progression of the Halion instrument is played nicely.
Going to try this again now with the keyswitching mechanism what Synfire offers....
Thu, 2022-05-26 - 21:21 Permalink
Yes, I've done some more research on this.
Have continued to study chords in Synfire for a while, as there are some new refinements for a chord progression to make in Synfire 2!
- New is that a chord shown as a green symbol and as an autochord (sustain) symbol can be converted to a more open voicing.
- minor seconds option: not clear to me yet.
-Aligment option : makes pitch leaps smoother
With these options you can make a nicer sounding chord progression.
Chord tone doublings I have not yet seen if they are automated in Synfire 2 to add.
Had I seen a string ensemble chord construction example I would have seen the symbols overlap a bit a very small piece
Thu, 2022-05-26 - 22:34 Permalink
Just another example of the new voicing option in Synfire.
The beauty of Synfire is after I add a 5th chord tone somewhere at the bottom of the progression ..the chord progression doesn't show any dissonant notes.
(That's the Synfire magic: it always sounds good).
A bass tone is indicated colored in the output screen
Some more experimenting with the new options...
Fri, 2022-05-27 - 10:58 Permalink
In this example for chord voicings : have a chord "ungrouped", more convenient is to just place a chord tone(s) ( green symbol) for 1 measure with the pencil tool.
Improved output screen : idea?
- Dragging the output screen upwards: make it bigger (the structure screen will become smaller).
It then becomes two screens that can vary in height.
- Indication of octaves for C pitch in the output screen (give color).