Posted
We are about to simplify the UI of the "Sounds" page (racks). The goal is to make it vertical channel strips with multiple FX insert slots (yes, finally), because that's what people are used to and intuitively understand. That will make a rack very much like the mixer console everybody knows from their DAW.
For this to work we need to get rid of the awkward "Insert" element and turn it into a simple insert slot for a an audio plug-in. The reason this unusual element exists is that under the hood it's a rack module in its own right, complete with a device description and a MIDI input.
Question: Did anyone ever create a DD for an FX plug-in and use Synfire to select presets and such?
I don't think this option is any useful and am looking forward to get rid of it. All an FX needs can be done with plug-in's own editor I suppose. Much better to have 3-4 insert slots so we can finally prepare a bit of mixing that will later export fine with DAWproject files.
Fri, 2025-05-30 - 13:32 Permalink
Question: Did anyone ever create a DD for an FX plug-in and use Synfire to select presets and such?
To answer this question specifically (for myself), no, I have not done this with FX (so far).
However, selecting presets on synthesizers - yes. I certainly hope you are not starting on a direct line to do away with this as well.
In general, the capabilities to send Bank and PC commands to plugins, as well as plugin parameter automation are important capabilities to have in any program that acts as a host for plugins.
Working from that principle, why should Synths and FX be treated differently? Consistency in this respect is desirable, I think.
Maybe a new way to deal with the sending of Bank and PC commands to any/all plugins could be arrived at that would meet all goals.
The goal is to make it vertical channel strips
Could this make it difficult to distinguish what's going on on the Sounds page with what's going on on the Matrix page?
Currently one looks like a mixer, and one looks like a gear rack. I think this is a clear distinction, given the current paradigm.
Would FX plugin slots perhaps best belong right in the instrument "mixer" channel strips of the Matrix?
Are the Matrix and the Sounds page on their way to being combined?
3-4 insert slots so we can finally prepare a bit of mixing that will later export fine with DAWproject files.
That seems like two desirable goals. Yes!
Fri, 2025-05-30 - 15:14 Permalink
This is only for FX plug-ins. Nothing would change for instruments. It's also a long term goal, not something for the next update.
Currently one looks like a mixer, and one looks like a gear rack. I think this is a clear distinction, given the current paradigm.
The Matrix page looking like a mixer is a problem because it definitely its NOT anything like a mixing console. All it can do is show parameter outlets for drag & drop or copy & paste and editing. We renamed the former "Mixer" page to "Matrix" in order to avoid this confusion but it didn't help. Users get mad because they don't understand why there are no FX slots, no plug-in edit buttons, why the volume sliders don't control audio volume, etc. And IMO they are right.
I even think the Matrix page is redundant. Apart from confusing users, how does it help? I didn't use it in years. Parameters can as well be moved/copied/edited on the Structure and Overview pages. The more I think about it I would like to get rid of it as well.
Only one "Mixer" page with vertical channel strips (rack modules) and FX slots and volume sliders that actually control the audio volume. That's it.
Fri, 2025-05-30 - 18:34 Permalink
The matrix has some merit on the snippets page though (for live playback)
Fri, 2025-05-30 - 19:00 Permalink
will loading a project restore the settings used by any insert plugins, if so then I don't see a problem with this change?
While changing the mixer functionality will there be any way to add sidechaining routing to those insert fx plugins that support it, so we can, for instance have a compressor on a bass instrument rack be affected by the kick drum beat?
Sat, 2025-05-31 - 09:08 Permalink
Did anyone ever create a DD for an FX plug-in and use Synfire to select presets and such?
I remember you asked that before. From my side, the answer is still the same. No, I don't use it.
The Matrix page looking like a mixer is a problem because it definitely its NOT anything like a mixing console.
The reason why it looks like a mixer are the volume sliders (which have no reason to be there, imo). However, the matrix view itself is important to have.
PS.: Ok, the "volume" sliders are not really volume sliders, but parameter value sliders. But that is not immediately obvious. It would be different if they would move to the current value when you click on a parameter. But that's not how they work.
Sat, 2025-05-31 - 12:12 Permalink
Did some further testing with these sliders in the Matrix view (which I never use, tbh). It appears that they are indeed just volume sliders. Can't be used for other parameter settings.
And for me they don't even jump to the volume value at the current position. For example, if I set different volume values for an instrument in two different containers and then select them alternately, only the slider in the parameter inspector jumps to the correct, but the slider in the matrix view remains static. Even if you set the playhead to different positions, the slider doesn't move. In this condition, it's pretty useless and rather confusing.
Sat, 2025-05-31 - 12:47 Permalink
Sliders don't respond to playhead selections. They respond to span selections in the editor though. And yes, somehow the slider on the inspector responds but the one on the console doesn't (a bug).
Automating volume in a mixer console style with sliders requires a lot of DAW functionality to be implemented properly (I forgot all the latch, drop-in, pick-up modes, or whatever they are called). Using CC7 for this is also somewhat confusing.
We tested direct audio automation but that's per rack module (or: channel strip) and can't be used to control individual instruments within the same plug-in. To do that we'd need to forward every single plug-in parameter to Synfire so users can pick the ones that control individual instrument volume. There are sometimes 50+ parameters to consider. You'd spend a lot of time setting this up only to lose it again when you load a different plug-in.