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Horizontal Scale

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I would like to assign a whole-half to the horizontal and use the vertical for scales that related to the harmony and are set automatically, is that possible?

I was also having trouble setting scales so that they detect in the catalogue... I can't seem to select the checkbox.


Sat, 2009-12-19 - 14:28 Permalink

The whole-halftone scales are part of the catalog, but they do not take over the role of a horizontal scale. For this you must create a scale set that uses the whole-halftone scale as reference scale:

- double-click on the whole-halftone scale in the catalog
- add the scale set to the catalog (from the palette that opened)
- rename the horizontal scale to "whole-halftone"
- save the catalog

Now you can pick it in the progression editor.

The easiest way to build a progression based on that scale is to simply use the palette you just saw. This will prefer its reference scale where possible.

Manual scale assignment is more tricky. The chord is required to be a subset of the horizontal scale, therefore only a limited number of chords and scales match (show up in the menu). Changing one scale also affects the other and vice versa.

Oops! This is a half-wholetone scale, but you get the idea (whole-halftone.png)

Sun, 2009-12-20 - 01:18 Permalink

Thanks, Ill be converting a number of those.

Will this work in the harmonizer?

I have found that working by dragging chords from the pallet doesn't work well for my method of composition.

I see "The chord is required to be a subset of the horizontal scale." So in the screenshot you posted, If I was using a C# Major harmony instead of diminished. It would not be possible to maintain the scale?

How would I maintain the scale in spite of the chords that fall on top of it? Are harmonic layers the only way? I guess that makes sense, though I try to avoid them as they are more or less hidden in the interface.

Sun, 2009-12-20 - 11:06 Permalink

[quote]How would I maintain the scale in spite of the chords that fall on top of it?

If the chord includes pitch classes that are not in the scale, then the scale doesn't work for that chord.

The idea behind this is that scales are entities that have been proven useful and harmonically consistent over the centuries, and that arbitrary changes to them very likely introduce unwanted glitches.

Imagine two instruments, one playing the full Am7 chord, the other emphasizing the major 3rd of the scale. A horrible clash of the min and maj 3rd. Thus playing a major chord with a scale that includes the min 3rd is avoided. The scale would have to temporarily switch here.

There might possibly be a scale in existence which is not yet in the catalog, is very similar to your desired scale and additionally includes the one pitch class of the chord that's missing. You could add it to the catalog then.

In general, if you want to utilize a certain scale in your music as an expression of style, it is sufficient to use it for the majority of chords. It is not necessary to have every chord use that scale, as chords pass by quickly and a real musician would not play certain notes over certain chords anyway.

[quote]Will this work in the harmonizer?
The harmonizer matches its input with chords only. If you tell the scale selection preferences to include alternative scale sets (the one you built as explained above), and set that scale set as the "global key", the harmonizer will prefer chords that are part of this artificial "key". This will most likely feature your whole-half scale.

Sun, 2009-12-20 - 11:17 Permalink

Its definitely motivated by dissonant music... Stravinsky etc... So yes, major and minor thirds together. I want to get comfortable working within the harmonic synthesis of synfire with enough flexibility to get those sorts of sounds. I guess poly chord are the way to go though.

If I just want access to a scale what kind of chord do I have to use so that the tonic doesn't influence the notes? Or would I just turn voice leading off until I had enough material to determine a harmony? C13? How can I easily choose a chord that represents the entire scale?

The polychord function makes me a little nervous just because it isn't visually obvious what the layers beyond the harmonic ruler are or what parts are assigned to what chord. Maybe its just a case of getting used to it.

EDIT:

It might be interesting, at some point, to have a dissonant mode in interpretation, where a parameter could control the spacing of the voice leading for more or less dissonance... Possibly even to the point of ignoring the set playing range.

Sun, 2009-12-20 - 11:27 Permalink

[quote]If I just want access to a scale what kind of chord do I have to use so that the tonic doesn't influence the notes?

Drag chords off the above palette, or use the palette for recording progressions.

[quote]Or would I just turn voice leading off
If you don't care about the chords being emphasized, yes.

[quote]How can I easily choose a chord that represents the entire scale?
Add it to the catalog and use it.

Sun, 2009-12-20 - 11:33 Permalink

I was thinking more in terms of how I would choose chords that would offer the full scale, even with scales with more than 7 tones. I know itll be in the list but Is there a quick way to grab one that definitely has all the tones available no matter what? The inserting the chord I understand.

If voice leading is on in any capacity it will always work to emphasize the tonic of the chord, even with 13ths?

I don't totally understand the difference between weak voice leading and none which is why this is all a bit confusing to me.

Sun, 2009-12-20 - 11:47 Permalink

I don't understand what you mean by "full scale". If you want the chromatic scale, just pick it. It works with every chord in all situations. If you want the whole-half scale, pick chords from that palette.

VL takes care of the transitions between chords. If you don't want the chords to stand out, you don't need it (off). I doubt it would be useful for atonal or dissonant music anyway, as there is no common psycho acoustic habituation for this style.

Sun, 2009-12-20 - 11:59 Permalink

Im just looking for a way to snap to a scale where all of the notes in the scale are considered equally. If bypassing voiceleading is the way to do it then I can experiment with working that way.

What I'm trying to accomplish is having a functioning tonal harmony, but then superimposing motives from a scale on top. I suppose that would mean two harmonic layers.

The part that I don't quite understand is the weak voice leading.

Voiceleading can move the notes into a different octave correct? That is a function that is very useful, but turning voice leading on in any capacity seems to make it emphasize a tonic when all I'm looking for it to do, in this case, is adjust the voicing so that dissonant tones exist but in distant octaves and arranged so that their harmonics line up in the most consonant way, despite the clashing tones -- again with no special emphasis on any one tonic (or at least not a deliberate emphasis ). The feature I was suggesting would create a parameter to control, in the voicing how close clashing tones can come to eachother and how well the harmonic series lines up in all of the notes (emphasizing early partials with notes)

Does that make more sense?

Sun, 2009-12-20 - 12:40 Permalink

[quote]Im just looking for a way to snap to a scale where all of the notes in the scale are considered equally. If bypassing voiceleading is the way to do it then I can experiment with working that way.

VL off means full scale all the time, yes. Provided the interpretation is set to allow the full scale.

[quote]What I'm trying to accomplish is having a functioning tonal harmony, but then superimposing motives from a scale on top. I suppose that would mean two harmonic layers.

In general, yes. But it's not necessary when (most of) the chords are subsets of the scale. You would just turn off VL for the superimposed melody and leave it on for instruments that play the functional part. If the majority of chords is off-scale, you would get extremely dissonant stuff.

Tip: As you can not select a specific scale for a layer (its calculated automatically), you would best create the desired scale as a chord and used that for all harmonic contexts in that layer.

[quote]Voiceleading can move the notes into a different octave correct?

No. In contrast to chord smoothing, VL does not shift octaves. VL applies minor corrections to segments that cross chord boundaries. These changes are very subtle, yet psycho-acoustically important.

Whether a minor second is a clash or not depends on the context and physical sound. The minor second in a Maj7 chord is just fine for a guitar or piano. Two flutes in b2 interval sound horrible (although horror might be a valid intention). Synfire has no knowledge about the physical sound spectrum of an instrument at this time.

Sun, 2009-12-20 - 12:50 Permalink

Ahh that makes sense then. I can work with that.

It would be interesting in version 900000 of Synfire if there was a mode of interpretation that would only focus on octave alignment -- with the goal of disarming dissonant material through a single abstract parameter.