Posted
Hi,
If I want to "play" the palette and have the MIDI for the chords go out (e.g. to loopMIDI, onward to my DAW), where/how do I set that up. IOW, where is the "MIDI destination" for playing the palette configured?
I find that I can add my port 'loopMIDI to DAW' to the Global Rack:
and then if I setup my 6 global instruments in the Global Instruments tab like so:
then I can play the keyboard in that tab (or do an audition with the headphones icon) and the MIDI will go out to where I intended.
However, playing a palette by clicking on the chords in it will not generate MIDI along this path.
So, where is the "MIDI destination" for playing the palette configured? (Or what else do I need to know?)
Thanks!
(Synfire Express 2 v2.3.7)
Mon, 2023-11-27 - 18:09 Permalink
That MIDI destination is the global "Chords" instrument. Unless you didn't set another one in your arrangement with Instrument >> Use For Live Chords.
Looking at your screenshot, you should not send all global instruments to the same MIDI channel. That makes quite a mess.
Mon, 2023-11-27 - 19:38 Permalink
Hi,
Thanks for your reply Andre!
So, to confirm, this part is as it should be?
--
When I switch between this:
and this:
in the Audio/MIDI Setup -> Global Instruments tab, I do not hear/see a change in output simply by doing that.
If make the change and then use the headphones icon, then I hear/see the result of the change.
Should it be happening immediately?
If not, is there a proper way to make the change "live"?
Are other things besides playing chords on the palette affected by changing the destination setting for the Chords GI?
I'm trying to get to a really simple one-touch way to change palette chord output from internal to external, and I would also like to be able to have "Both At Once". And, I would like to do this without casting side-effects all through the program!
I know what I'm aiming to accomplish, but I don't know a) if it is currently possible, or b) how best to phrase a specific enhancement suggestion if not.
Very offhand, since my understanding here needs to increase, it seems like a place to define and toggle on/off a secondary palette chord destination might be a good way to "untangle" things.
Mon, 2023-11-27 - 20:54 Permalink
I'm trying to get to a really simple one-touch way to change palette chord output from internal to external, and I would also like to be able to have "Both At Once". And, I would like to do this without casting side-effects all through the program
There could be a simpler way to accomplish this, but I would setup a simple sketch with two instruments, one for the external sound and one for the internal sound, and set both instruments to Auto-Chords (Parameter "Interpretation" >> Tab "Form" >> Check box "Auto Chords"). Then with the command Playback >> "Play this sketch live" you can then activate the Sketch to be triggered by the palette.This way, you can also leave the global instruments as they are.
Mon, 2023-11-27 - 21:40 Permalink
You could also create a sketch with 2 chord instruments (auto-chord interpretation) one going to a MIDI channel and one going to the global chord instrument. then save the sketch with "save to menu choice" to your sketches folder so that it appears in the palette's "Playback >> Sketch" menu. Then select the sketch when you need the dual output and away you go. One issue I have been dealing with (and I'm not sure if it's my setup) is that notes on the local (global chords) instrument get stuck for about 4 or 8 bars and you get a lot of dissonance but it then goes away and things sound ok. Not sure if this is a bug. I have tried turning off "sustain palette chord chords" and "Auto tie chords notes" from the playback menu as well as going back to the sketch "Playback >> Edit current sketch" then going into the intruments' interpretation parameter and messing with the legato switch and length, but turning off tie notes, seems to have gotten me the best compromise.
Mon, 2023-11-27 - 22:11 Permalink
Very interesting suggestion, juergen. Thank you!
I've made some headway with it, getting the dual output I want when I click a chord in the palette.
However, when I do so, the play arrow highlights and the chord keeps repeating.
I just want the chord to play once-per-touch, either sustaining when triggered with a quick mouse click, or being held during a downclick-hold-release cycle of the mouse button (the "normal" palette behavior, if I may put it that way).
I expect this constant repeat can be defeated, I just don't know how to do it! (yet)
Mon, 2023-11-27 - 23:52 Permalink
This constant playing is total mess. It seems to have something to do with Sketches, or my Sketch, but I'm not sure.
Questions:
- What causes the main playback arrow to fire when I click on a Palette item? (I do not want this.)
-
What causes the repeated clang - clang -clang ... form of output? (I don't get this when I manually click directly on the playback arrow myself.)
Tue, 2023-11-28 - 09:07 Permalink
If you send MIDI to an external instrument via loopback make sure you dont also listen to that loopback for input (feedback loop)
Tue, 2023-11-28 - 16:11 Permalink
Hi. I appreciate all the comments so far, though the solution is still elusive!
FWIW, I am not looping back, thanks.
I have made a short video to demonstrate my configuration and the outcome experienced.
I believe this will clarify the situation, the need, and the questions.
https://www.screencast.com/t/Wpe4eMlT
If Cognitone staff (or anyone else interested) could kindly watch this and respond to it directly in whatever detail necessary to clarify what is/isn't possible and how to achieve it, I would much appreciate it.
Thanks again!
Tue, 2023-11-28 - 17:34 Permalink
Your setup seems correct. I tried the exact same setup here and all chords of the palette go to the loopback driver output.
Not sure what's different at your end. Sometimes a Playback >> Reset Audio/MIDI System helps after a setup was changed significantly and doesn't behave as expected. It should not be necessary, but external MIDI ports can be a bit iffy.
Tue, 2023-11-28 - 18:03 Permalink
Andre,
Yes, the external outs in/of themselves work here, as the video showed. I'm glad you confirm they work for you also. It sure would be strange if they did not!
The point is that setting up those external outs (in the way shown) results in losing the ability to hear the palette in Synfire itself.
Please for the moment disregard whatever might or might not be going on in the rest of the studio ...
The goal is to be able to send the palette MIDI out, -and- to still be able to hear it (in Synfire).
Is there some combination of Matrix Instruments, Sketches, Global Racks, Global Instruments, etc. (?) that will allow this? Or not? I'm asking for information/answer from someone with deep knowledge ;^), since I do not myself have that.
Tue, 2023-11-28 - 18:05 Permalink
Conceptually, this is what I am asking for:
Is there a way to mimic that using existing capabilities?
If not, could exactly that be accepted as a literal TBD enhancement to the product?
P.S. Though I begin from only being concerned with palette output, the more I think about it, the more the idea of multiple outs makes sense to me for all 6 of the global instruments. However, if the quickest, best answer from the development viewpoint would be to place a single alternate out destination setting on the Palette page, that would still be a great enhancement.
Tue, 2023-11-28 - 18:12 Permalink
An instrument (global or inside an arrangement) can only have a single MIDI destination. It is unlikely this will change. Sound setup is already complex enough.
You can however route that external MIDI signal to any destination(s) you want, as far as the operating system and your studio utilities and/or DAW support that.
Tue, 2023-11-28 - 18:38 Permalink
Yet another idea: You could route the Global Instrument to a plugin which can generate sound and pass through the incoming midi data at the same time. For instance Kontakt should be able to do that. I haven't tried it out but at least in Kontakt there is a setting for that: Options >> Engine >> Send MIDI to outside world >> Incoming notes