Is there a way to record chords and split the chord notes

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janamdo's picture
janamdo
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Is there a way to record chords and split the chord notes

I do want to record some chords by piano and split the chord notes in some new instruments

Is this possible, because the range of the new instrument can be different then from the piano
The chord is then dismantled in chord notes. ( the chord segment is not whole anymore ) 

andre's picture
andre
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I would do that in a different way. Rather than attempting to split physically recorded pitches, let the Harmony parameter do the job of assigning chord notes to the (melodic) Figures for different instruments. Just make sure the playing ranges of the instruments don't overlap much.

In other words: Instead of modifying chords, let Synfire render multiple melodies that snap into Harmony in distinct pitch ranges, thus forming chords en passant.

janamdo's picture
janamdo
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I think it is important to play with chords and experiment with this and record as a pianosketch. (like in Cubase)

Your advice ..seems to me not handy to add a chordprogression at forehand and unnatural. 

Can this feature made more userfriendly ? ... with some guiding

- i made a chordprogression of triads
- adding 3 instrument tracks

- how to go further ? ..its trial and error now

 

 

janamdo's picture
janamdo
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I am curious how to get chord note instruments derived from the harmony parameter
How to do this .what is the workflow in Synfire in comparison with recording piano sketches in Cubase? (melody + chords) 
Are there Synfire users who know how this to do too ?

 

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blacksun
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What do you mean by 'how to get chord note instruments derived from the harmony parameter'?

If you have a chord progression, the simplest way (but maybe not the best) way of generating chords for an instrument is to tick the autochord box. Press play and the instrument will play chords following the chord progression. Not sure that is what you are after as I would have thought after several years of using Synfire you knew this? If you want to then turn the output into figures you can further edit, use the capture from output function, then turn the autochord off.

janamdo's picture
janamdo
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It is not about generating chords here, there are chords played together with a melody by hand.

Its about playing a piano sketch ( melody +triads in different inversions or root ..depends on the voiceleading and how it sounds).
The accompaniment chords notes are now seperated in a single instruments : eg , the topnote of the chord is now for a first violin the middle note for viola and cell + basses in octaves for the bass note.

The piano sketch is now transformed in a (say) a violin 1 melody and the chords are played by different instruments
In cubase you played the melody and chords in Synfire too, but it is not easy to collect all the chord topnotes/middle/bas notes and make out of this 3 new instrumenttracks seems to me?   

 

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janamdo
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Did you now get the idea what this is all about ? 
The workflow seen in Cubase for classical composing seems to be not possible in Synfire and i quess it will never be possible in Synfire.

 

blacksun's picture
blacksun
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Synfire can be and is used for composing classical music, it just uses a different workflow. However, at this point in time you are correct, Synfire will not behave like a DAW, it isn't one and I hope never will be. Trying to impose a DAW workflow on synfire will result in disappointment and frustration. Check out one of the main pages about synfire for some of the high level differences in workflow http://www.cognitone.com/products/mps/intro/page.stml

From what you've said, I guess you are trying to record (enter) a tune, one you have already composed, you know the chord progression, you know the notes the main violin will play, you know which notes the second violin will play, you know the notes the viola will play and you know the notes the cello will play, but synfire won't record this in or rather allow you to easily manipulate the recorded notes from one track to spread it across multiple instruments?

I would suggest that Synfire is the wrong tool for this. It's there to help come up with that arrangement and maybe try out different ideas not just record it note for note, but if you insist in trying it in Synfire, you could try mimic a DAW workflow. Copy the figures (melody/chords) to each instrument then remove the notes you dont want that instrument to play, change the playing ranges, set the cello figures to bass types,etc.  You can use drag select and other group select functions to select the notes to remove. However as you know when you then exported the output back to a DAW it wouldnt resemble what you were after exactly unless you used static notes throughout, so I wouldnt recommend this way over the suggestion by Andre.

One other thing, most orchestral instruments can not play chords. A chord is just the notes from multiple melodies played by one or more instruments at any given point in time. Synfire will combine these separate melodies in such a way that they match the chord progression (harmony) and make musical sense based on multiple parameters (voice leading,ranges,etc). Think I got that from one of Andre's videos and it was a real light bulb moment for me and is one of the reasons why Andre's answer to your question is the more powerful solution.

 

janamdo's picture
janamdo
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but if you insist in trying it in Synfire, you could try mimic a DAW workflow. Copy the figures (melody/chords) to each instrument then remove the notes you dont want that instrument to play, change the playing ranges,

Yes i try to follow the idea off how it be is done in a DAW
Only it is not clear to me how this can be done in Synfire.. i got a suggesttion from Andre how i can do it splitting chords, but how do Andre this practical in Synfire.. and it seems another workflow as you proposed? : copying the chordprogression as a whole to a  wanted splitting instrument tracks and strip off the chord notes.
Figure out the most possible easy way to splitting chords  that's the goal here.  

In other words: Instead of modifying chords, let Synfire render multiple melodies that snap into Harmony in distinct pitch ranges, thus forming chords en passant.

How? 
 

blacksun's picture
blacksun
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Omg janamdo, do you ever use Synfire? To replicate the daw process:

Add your instruments

select an instrument

press record

play your chords on your midi keyboard

stop record

drag figure/take to other two instruments.

In the first instrument, select the note edit tool

drag select the notes you dont want this instrument to play

press delete

repeat for the other two instruments.

It is pretty much the same in every DAW. There is at least one video tutorial that includes examples of editing phrases by drag selecting or key combinations. As I mentioned before, if you are trying to exactly recreate a tune you have in your head you will probably have to use static note types or play around with interpretation and voice leading, etc.

 

For Andre's way of working, record a melody for each instrument. Add your chord progression to the harmony parameter. For the cello, change the note type to bass, for the other instruments change the playing ranges so that they barely overlap. There are videos available that show all of those steps. This is the way I would do it, as you can then experiment with changes to the chord progression, alter the interpretation and voice leading,pauses, rhythm, etc to create something new. If I just want to recreate a tune exactly by recording notes (or adding to a piano roll) to play back the same everytime and only make minor tweeks, i just do it in Ableton.

 

janamdo's picture
janamdo
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Recording in Synfire is not difficult @Blacksun..haha..ooh man

For Andre's way of working, record a melody for each instrument. Add your chord progression to the harmony parameter

It is recording a pianosketch with a melody and harmony, so to get the same results  by recording the chordnotes in a melodies, you must now all notes at forehand ..it is not intuiative as it seems. 

Hopefully is this workable in Synfire? ..splitting chords and another issue is grouptracking for getting a idea of how a instrument tracks their symbols are separated from eachother.. (check by midi output).  

A piano sketch should be the basis and record this in Synfire arrangementscreen and see this in a keyboard on the bottom of the arrangementscreen ( a new feature in Synfre idea by me ) what chords are played by me( record these ..to put them later on in the progression).
I think stripping of the chords is a more natural way for the chordpositions for the human pianoplayer, then playing and record the melodies seperated.
Maybe also easier stripping chords?
 
    

blacksun's picture
blacksun
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Last seen 4 hours 39 min ago

Well I tried doing what I'd suggested and it worked although due to not being a concert pianoist I had to record the chords in separately from the melody. Took about 5 minutes in total to do.

By the way if you enter your harmony into the progression tab, and enable live detection, you do get your piano keyboard view your were after which shows what notes you are playing and tells you the chord (and other nice info).

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