Posted
Part of synfire's analysis process seems to cause it to changes a midi file fairly significantly when it imports the file.
I find it annoying and it stopped me from working with synfre for a while - the figure editing is clunky and difficult in comparison to editing midi in Ableton so I have always found it difficult to either work on midi I have imported as it changes it so much or create tracks from scratch as the editing process is pretty laborious in comparison to Live.
Anyway, I have found a pretty good way to make sure that Synfire imports your music as the midi file is rather than changing it.
Open your midi file in live or logic, open the piano roll view in your daw (assuming it's all rewired etc)
When you move a note in synfire it should fire the repective key on your piano roll.
Note by note go through checking where synfire has decided notes should be vs the actial notes.
It obviously takes a little bit of time but you can get a note pefect playback (assuming you are working on the same progression as in your daw).
I have noticed a few posts here in the past about this so hopefully it will help anyone who's having problems.
(At this point I reckon it's likely ANdre or Supertonic will chime in with - there's an easier way to do this - use xyz)
Fri, 2011-01-14 - 16:25 Permalink
Indeed: ;-) Use a static preset for import.
We frequently get asked why the import re-interprets a track's notes. Actually this is because the per track import settings default to creating a dynamic figure from each track's midi (as opposed to a static figure), because we assume this is what a phrase is intended to be created for (building a new composition).
You can preserve your original pitches if you switch the import preset per track to "Input for Harmonizer" or an other static preset (e.g. drums). We could change the default to this setting, but then people would wonder why their imported figures do not follow a changed progression, questioning the whole purpose of Synfire.
Note that a static import preset will give you the brown, absolute pitch figure symbols. If your intention is to edit the harmony progression and have the track follow it, you certainly rather want the blue, green or purple symbols.
Fri, 2011-01-14 - 17:27 Permalink
Hi Andre,
I have used the static import feature before in the past however by definition it's got some limitations.
For example, I want to import a midi piece that I have carefully worked out and I wish for synfire to play the piece back as I intended it to be heard, not as Synfire wants to re-interpret it.
BUT
I also want to change the harmony later in the track, perhaps for a chorus or for a middle 8 or whatever.
I encounter a problem with the static import for obvious reasons.
But - the method I have suggested will allow synfire to keep the figure fluid AND keep my original file intact.
Fri, 2011-01-14 - 17:33 Permalink
Actually this method is mostly accurate.
I have found with a couple of points in the progression that I have actually slightly moved outside the progression, for example from one chord to something similar (different extensions perhaps).
I came a bit stuck last night as I was unable to hit the note I wanted by using the diatonic or chromatic modifiers.
I was able to fix the problem i had by changing the harmony and inserting a new chord to allow he extra note but I wonder how I could do this without doing so.
Possible scenario - I have a jazz progression going and I have some improvisation going on over the top, clearly the improvisation is going to momentarily move in and out of the notes in the mode. how would I allow for this in the figure without making the harmony hopelessly complicated?
i would ahve thought the chromatic modifier would work however it still seemed to be avoiding the exact note i was looking for (I could check this by looking at the piano roll in Ableton). My solution was to change the harmony as described however I am hoping there is a more simple / elegant way of doing this.
Wed, 2011-01-19 - 09:08 Permalink
Hi andre,
Ein General-Voreinstellungs-Button statisch/dynamisch fänd ich in diesem Fenster eine tolle Sache. Sowie die Möglichkeit, mehrere Instrumente aufs Mal anwählen zu können, um diesen die selben Voreinstellungen geben zu können.
Happy coding,
Minkepatt
Wed, 2011-01-19 - 10:37 Permalink
For the Chromatic option to produce out-of-scale pitches, the figure symbol needs to have a chromatic component (aka accidental, +/- deviating from diatonic scale step). Use SHIFT + ARROW UP/DOWN to achieve this.
@Minkepatt: Your suggestions are already being considered.
In general, out-of-scale notes are a challenge, because once you use them, your figure might no longer work in a different harmonic context. The alteration that is a nice "blue note" in one progression, may turn into a horrid "yellow note" in another progression. Therefore changing the chord is always the best method, albeit it can be a hassle to find the right one. We plan on adding a convenience tool that helps with this.
Tue, 2011-01-25 - 11:06 Permalink
hi Andre,
I think there are two modifier boxes IIRC one is Diatonic and the other chromatic. Using these I couldn't get certain notes to match on the piano roll unless changing the chord.
Would using shift plus the up and down keys change this?
I figured I'd just have ti change the chord...
Also, wouldn there not be a way of keeping the relationship between the blue note and the chord - i..e synfire doesn some pretty smart analysis, perhaps it can make an educated guess as to what the relationship would be if using a different harmony
Sat, 2011-01-29 - 00:06 Permalink
In addition to setting the chromatic and diatonic component, you also need to enable the Disable VL and Chromatic switch. This is the only way currently to get past the current vertical scale.
perhaps it can make an educated guess as to what the relationship would be if using a different harmony
Yeah, that's what AI is supposed to be used for. Still, this is a highly non-trivial problem to solve. Finding the right chord is the best method, because a chord ensures harmonic integrity among all instruments. Otherwise multiple blue notes of different instruments would clash in a way that could destroy your speakers ;-)
Thu, 2011-02-03 - 12:37 Permalink
Hey, thanks for the response.
I am confused here, there's a option to move the notes chromatically but it doesn't do so unless you also tick a box for cjhromatic transposition?
Is that correct? Doesn't the need for having two points at which one has to 'interface with Chromaticism' seem redundant. Would this switch not be better next to the box (as yo umay wish it for some parts and not others). Therefore making the software a little more immediately usable... I might be totally wrong here but I was banging my head against a brick wall for a while to try to work this out....
Thu, 2011-02-03 - 14:32 Permalink
Doesn't the need for having two points at which one has to 'interface with Chromaticism' seem redundant.
No. Almost every scale has half-tone steps, so a chromatic component "+/-" often denotes a pitch inside the scale, i.e. the chromatic component does not imply "outside scale". This is similar to the use of sharps and flats (#, b) in traditional notation.
By ticking "Disable VL", you instruct Synfire to disregard its internal rules for keeping the overall melodic movement consistent.
By ticking the "Chromatic" option, you are telling it that you also don't care if the pitch happens to fall outside the scale.