We want to offer iLok Cloud activation, but I can't promise yet. We're still negotiating. I should also note that it requires you to be permanently online while Synfire is running.
VST3 will not support multiple MIDI ports immediately, but we will look into that. If it's doable without too much disruption, no problem.
More:
There will be a new edition: Synfire Sparks. An affordable entry for new users to get started with prototyping with an upgrade path to Express and Pro.
Upgrades will be smoother, migrating your existing settings, racks and other data automatically. All editions now use the same 'Synfire' folders, so you can't have Sparks, Express or Pro installed side by side, but that is pointless anyway.
Windows HiDPI looks great (see attached image). It has minor cosmetic issues with odd scaling factors, but works fine with 100%, 200% and everything above. Visually, Mac and Windows releases are now almost on par.
Hope you are well, and the relative silence over the last week or so was because you had your head down getting S2 ready ;)
I'd think multiport for VST3 should be fairly straightforward so hopefully we'll see that soon as it would reduce the number of intstruments in a large template and make exporting to DAWs easier. In the meantime, the interface looks really nice and clean, well done!
I know it's late to be requesting a new feature, but in Cubase one can make a new version of a track by selecting that option from a dropdown menu located at the far right of each track's header. So I could create a new version of an existing track, make changes to the new version, and then quickly switch between the two versions to A/B them. Also, I routinely make new versions of most tracks so I have the originals as a safety copy.
A similar feature on Synfire's Instruments would be quite handy.
Anyway, carry on...I know you're working diligently on 2.0, and it's gonna be great.
The software is already complete and being tested. Occasional bugs still cause ripple effects that need to be fixed, but no need to panic.
Content production however is still in progress and that's a big part of the pie (parameter templates, documents, factories, libraries, help, tutorials, localization, website update).
We're all impatient and can't wait anymore. If we were to launch something half-baked with big fanfare, the backlash would be devastating. So I ask everyone to be patient. I will keep you posted on the progress.
I don't aspect nothing else from the famous known German : grundlichkeit
Its only that several times a ETA is announced for a new Synfire release but never make it. ;-)
Logical that it must be 100 % ready Synfire before it can be used.
As much as I love the excitement of wrapping it all up, twelve hours work vs. four hours of sleep are not healthy, so the only remedy is to be reasonable and do what can be done until it's all done. Synfire 2.0 is so great, I'm getting goose bumps all day and am dancing in the office ... it will be so worth the long wait. We will all have so much fun!
A huge leap forward. So much easier to use, cleaner to look at, and more instant gratification. If you have a KIM library and a few plug-ins, it literally takes a couple minutes to fire up a deck of snippets and have fun with random arrangements, etc. Almost no sound setup is required anymore. Just drop a preset, plug-in or phrase on a snippet or anywhere in the arrangement and the Wizard pops up with pre-selected suggestions. The more presets and devices you collect over time, the more comfortable it gets.
And yes, Snippets also work with "classical" music. Any music actually. Currently doing ambient tracks and film themes. Heck, there is no limit ...
Can't wait anymore. Borders on torture. Stay tuned.
Nice to hear your exitement. We are looking foreward to share the fun.
Are the any compositional features/concepts of Synfire 1 that did not make it into Synfire 2 due to the redesign?
For example, besides the algorithmic generation, can the new KIM results also be manually edited similarily to how one could edit figures in Synfire 1, like rhythmic transformations etc.? What about compatibility of version 1 data, like palettes etc?
For example, besides the algorithmic generation, can the new KIM results also be manually edited similarily to how one could edit figures in Synfire 1, like rhythmic transformations etc.? What about compatibility of version 1 data, like palettes etc?
Sure. Generated phrases are raw material you can edit, combine, modify and dissect in any way you see fit. As you can also generate parameters, you can combine your own phrases from the output of multiple factories. For example, copy the Step output of one factory and use it as input for another.
All version 1 files can be opened. On installation, Synfire migrates all version 1 setup automatically.
If my wish for Christmas was synfire v.2,0, what will the odds in % be that my wish was fulfilled .????????? LOL.
Merry Christmas to you Andre and to all in the cognitone user forum.
Unfortunately, it still takes a little more time. There are so many things involved in the project that are not directly related to software development, and they are easily forgotten among all the enthusiasm. For example, we will have three editions: Synfire Sparks, Synfire Express and Synfire Pro. Synfire Pro is long finished, but the other editions still need to be tested separately. Harmony Navigator 3 will be released as a plug-in only next year.
To shorten the waiting time a bit, here is an example built 100% by KIM Factories. There is truly not a single recorded or imported snippet in it! Everything is generated and then assembled. Yes, even the drums.
And I can tell you: This is really a hell of fun. I wouldn't have come up with these rhythms and all the details on my own. KIM simply dropped them in front of my feet and the groove got going ;-)
This is very disappointing.
The upgrade has been announced and postponed too many times.
If Synfire Pro is ready, why wait?
I understand that from a marketing point of view it is good to release everything together. But it is also good to take announcements seriously.
Awesome music but seriously? If its finished cant you just drop it into our account with a paypal link next to it? My guess is that we wont see SFP 2.0 until June if you are developing new products and a new website. Please?
Yes, delays are disappointing and we are sorry for that. Between finishing a software and being able to distribute it there are unpredictable factors at play, which is why almost nobody ever announces a definite ETA. Missing the holiday season already is a big loss for Cognitone that nobody takes lightly. We're still enthusiastically looking forward to the release and the future.
Sparks, Express and Pro are all based on the same code, so no new products. Work on HN3 will not start before Synfire is released. It won't take that long anymore.
Congratulations to you and the team for the progress so far. Have a safe, enjoyable and rejuvinating holiday break. I look forward to the release in the new year.
By the way, regarding the installer of Synfire 2: Please make it possible to install Synfire 1 and 2 in parallel on one machine. I will certainly use Synfire 2 in the first time only for playing around. For more serious activities I don't like to deal with bugs so much and will rather continue to use Synfire 1 for the time being.
Happy Holidays to one and all. Thanks for the hard work Andre and Team! As an old coder, excited to hear about the "music scripting language thingy" you are tinkering with.
Please make it possible to install Synfire 1 and 2 in parallel on one machine.
I'm glad you bring this up, as it is one of the things that happen to unexpectedly delay a release: Deployment. A parallel installation can be very useful indeed. Just think of running a Demo before deciding to upgrade. A lot of thought went into this.
To ensure a seamless upgrade experience (not only from 1 to 2, but also from Sparks to Express to Pro), we improved a few things. Your saved project files are left untouched, but the folder structure has been unified. A previous 'Config' folder is updated and several folders renamed from 'Synfire Pro' to 'Synfire', which is now used by all editions. After an upgrade, you can simply continue with the entire setup you already have. Previously, upgraded installations came up empty.
Also, the Audio Engine (engine, drone plug-ins, plug-in scanner, transport module, etc) is difficult to separate depending on version, because of name clashes, DAWs loading plug-ins automatically, etc. In short: The audio subsystem of the OS is built on the assumption that everyting is global. There is no means for different versions of plug-ins to exist side by side, unless they use different names and identifiers (which breaks your existing projects).
All this makes it hard to support parallel installations. If we solve this for demos, there might be an option though.
In order to sate the horde, why don't you release the documentation for Synfire 2 on the wiki here. That way you will also reduce the admin burden of questions when Synfire launches, and get manageable feedback on the manual itself.
I agree this is a great idea, but the documentation is still being worked on, which is one of the bottlenecks I mentioned. But yes, when a first version is complete, we can publish it ahead of the release.
Also, existing users will be able to upgrade as soon as deployment is basically possible. Even if the 'official' launch might be weeks away. Marketing considerations shouldn't affect you much.
Here's a first video with KIM as A.I. assistant helping me out. She can be a bit unruly and obsessed at times, but her reliable articulation is a boon when there's little time for long sessions in the studio. She is slowly becoming dear to my heart ;-)
I'm planning to run Synfire Pro 2 on my home Mac under MacOS Monterey and alternatively Synfire Pro 1 on my studio computer under Windows 8.
Due to new file formats, you won't be able to use in your studio any files you created at home. Technically, an upgrade converts a license into another, but there are workarounds, should you really need one. Contact me directly for details.
> Existing users will be able to upgrade as soon as deployment is basically possible.
Very kind indeed! I would also be happy to sign a non-disclosure agreement to give you extra piece of mind, and likely others too.
Possibly, such early adapters could also provide a service, like acting as testers, or even contributing user content (which you might further curate), giving a bit of a headstart to other users joining later. Just an idea...
To be honest, I'm not 100% sure about the details yet. If there's possibly a way to make existing installations of Synfire 1 accept a Synfire 2 license owned by the same person, that woud be great.
I'm not sure about the Ilok licensing system, but for example with Cubase it is possible without any problems to open for example Cubase 6 with a Cubase 10 license. I would assume that this should be possible with Ilok-based systems as well.
It's a huge step in the simplification area already when setting up up the sound sources. Please try to have same approach for other key functionalities... I have to say I gave up version 1 (too complex for me and using scaler 2 helped me a lot to go to the point ...even it's not a real prototyping software indeed...)
Comments
Sun, 2021-10-10 - 21:51 Permalink
Can I check if v2 is going to have VST3 support. I recall this being mentioned. If it does, will this include multi port?
Tue, 2021-10-19 - 11:12 Permalink
Yes, there will be a demo for 2.0.
We want to offer iLok Cloud activation, but I can't promise yet. We're still negotiating. I should also note that it requires you to be permanently online while Synfire is running.
VST3 will not support multiple MIDI ports immediately, but we will look into that. If it's doable without too much disruption, no problem.
More:
Tue, 2021-10-19 - 11:56 Permalink
Thanks for the update Andre.
Hope you are well, and the relative silence over the last week or so was because you had your head down getting S2 ready ;)
I'd think multiport for VST3 should be fairly straightforward so hopefully we'll see that soon as it would reduce the number of intstruments in a large template and make exporting to DAWs easier. In the meantime, the interface looks really nice and clean, well done!
Tue, 2021-10-19 - 18:22 Permalink
Andre thanks for the update.
If the iLok Cloud activation option doesn't work out, would it be possible for you to allow two activations?
Looking forward to trying version 2!
Sun, 2021-10-31 - 16:18 Permalink
Hi, It is not so many hours left on the October month and still no update to version 2!
Sun, 2021-10-31 - 16:40 Permalink
No worries on updates from me I just hope the work is going well!
Sun, 2021-10-31 - 16:46 Permalink
> not so many hours left on the October month
I am sure the team is well aware of that. We just have to -- and will -- wait patiently as long as it takes. :)
Sun, 2021-10-31 - 21:18 Permalink
Hosanna au plus haut des cieux.. i can't wait....
Sun, 2021-10-31 - 21:33 Permalink
I know it's late to be requesting a new feature, but in Cubase one can make a new version of a track by selecting that option from a dropdown menu located at the far right of each track's header. So I could create a new version of an existing track, make changes to the new version, and then quickly switch between the two versions to A/B them. Also, I routinely make new versions of most tracks so I have the originals as a safety copy.
A similar feature on Synfire's Instruments would be quite handy.
Anyway, carry on...I know you're working diligently on 2.0, and it's gonna be great.
Mon, 2021-11-01 - 08:45 Permalink
The software is already complete and being tested. Occasional bugs still cause ripple effects that need to be fixed, but no need to panic.
Content production however is still in progress and that's a big part of the pie (parameter templates, documents, factories, libraries, help, tutorials, localization, website update).
We're all impatient and can't wait anymore. If we were to launch something half-baked with big fanfare, the backlash would be devastating. So I ask everyone to be patient. I will keep you posted on the progress.
Mon, 2021-11-01 - 08:48 Permalink
Already done: Duplicate a phrase (Command-D) and activate/inactivate it as needed. Inactivation will also work for containers, note symbols (Mute).
As this doesn't affect the whole 'track', but precisely one phrase in a container, it is even more targeted and convenient.
Mon, 2021-11-01 - 11:30 Permalink
May the Flow be with you.
Mon, 2021-11-01 - 11:42 Permalink
I don't aspect nothing else from the famous known German : grundlichkeit
Its only that several times a ETA is announced for a new Synfire release but never make it. ;-)
Logical that it must be 100 % ready Synfire before it can be used.
Tue, 2021-11-02 - 06:19 Permalink
givE it givE it givE it to me! Old Disco track, givE it to me Bro....
Sun, 2021-11-07 - 22:25 Permalink
I just read there will be a rating system for phrases. Can't stop getting more excited for this when it's ready!
Tue, 2021-11-23 - 21:21 Permalink
This forum seems to have gone really quiet over the last week or so. Quiet before the storm?
Tue, 2021-11-23 - 21:32 Permalink
I've been trying to not distract Andre from his work, for purely selfish motives.
Tue, 2021-11-23 - 22:02 Permalink
Personally, I don't know what the fuss is about. But my computer is refusing to boogie until Kim arrives to the party.
Sun, 2021-11-28 - 19:33 Permalink
As much as I love the excitement of wrapping it all up, twelve hours work vs. four hours of sleep are not healthy, so the only remedy is to be reasonable and do what can be done until it's all done. Synfire 2.0 is so great, I'm getting goose bumps all day and am dancing in the office ... it will be so worth the long wait. We will all have so much fun!
A huge leap forward. So much easier to use, cleaner to look at, and more instant gratification. If you have a KIM library and a few plug-ins, it literally takes a couple minutes to fire up a deck of snippets and have fun with random arrangements, etc. Almost no sound setup is required anymore. Just drop a preset, plug-in or phrase on a snippet or anywhere in the arrangement and the Wizard pops up with pre-selected suggestions. The more presets and devices you collect over time, the more comfortable it gets.
And yes, Snippets also work with "classical" music. Any music actually. Currently doing ambient tracks and film themes. Heck, there is no limit ...
Can't wait anymore. Borders on torture. Stay tuned.
Sun, 2021-11-28 - 20:08 Permalink
Borders is an underestimation. I will get a serious winter depression, if KIM and friends doesn't arrive soon..
Sun, 2021-11-28 - 20:13 Permalink
Nice to hear your exitement. We are looking foreward to share the fun.
Are the any compositional features/concepts of Synfire 1 that did not make it into Synfire 2 due to the redesign?
For example, besides the algorithmic generation, can the new KIM results also be manually edited similarily to how one could edit figures in Synfire 1, like rhythmic transformations etc.? What about compatibility of version 1 data, like palettes etc?
:)
Sun, 2021-11-28 - 20:50 Permalink
I just hope those goosebumps are contagious. :)
Sun, 2021-11-28 - 21:18 Permalink
Sure. Generated phrases are raw material you can edit, combine, modify and dissect in any way you see fit. As you can also generate parameters, you can combine your own phrases from the output of multiple factories. For example, copy the Step output of one factory and use it as input for another.
All version 1 files can be opened. On installation, Synfire migrates all version 1 setup automatically.
Mon, 2021-11-29 - 05:03 Permalink
Great, thanks!
Mon, 2021-11-29 - 14:59 Permalink
Hello when i can test the beta?
Mon, 2021-11-29 - 15:35 Permalink
Andcé let me clean your shoes ....i'm ready to do it, to be the first to go in the dream of Synfire 2 with you...Brother!
Fri, 2021-12-10 - 16:04 Permalink
If my wish for Christmas was synfire v.2,0, what will the odds in % be that my wish was fulfilled .????????? LOL.
Merry Christmas to you Andre and to all in the cognitone user forum.
Sun, 2021-12-19 - 19:16 Permalink
Unfortunately, it still takes a little more time. There are so many things involved in the project that are not directly related to software development, and they are easily forgotten among all the enthusiasm. For example, we will have three editions: Synfire Sparks, Synfire Express and Synfire Pro. Synfire Pro is long finished, but the other editions still need to be tested separately. Harmony Navigator 3 will be released as a plug-in only next year.
To shorten the waiting time a bit, here is an example built 100% by KIM Factories. There is truly not a single recorded or imported snippet in it! Everything is generated and then assembled. Yes, even the drums.
And I can tell you: This is really a hell of fun. I wouldn't have come up with these rhythms and all the details on my own. KIM simply dropped them in front of my feet and the groove got going ;-)
Sun, 2021-12-19 - 19:47 Permalink
This is very disappointing.
The upgrade has been announced and postponed too many times.
If Synfire Pro is ready, why wait?
I understand that from a marketing point of view it is good to release everything together. But it is also good to take announcements seriously.
Sun, 2021-12-19 - 20:01 Permalink
Awesome music but seriously? If its finished cant you just drop it into our account with a paypal link next to it? My guess is that we wont see SFP 2.0 until June if you are developing new products and a new website. Please?
Sun, 2021-12-19 - 20:10 Permalink
Yes, delays are disappointing and we are sorry for that. Between finishing a software and being able to distribute it there are unpredictable factors at play, which is why almost nobody ever announces a definite ETA. Missing the holiday season already is a big loss for Cognitone that nobody takes lightly. We're still enthusiastically looking forward to the release and the future.
Sun, 2021-12-19 - 20:20 Permalink
Sparks, Express and Pro are all based on the same code, so no new products. Work on HN3 will not start before Synfire is released. It won't take that long anymore.
Sun, 2021-12-19 - 20:54 Permalink
Hi Andre,
If you don't mind, may I ask if Cognitone and Virharmonic are somehow related or if some people are somehow involved with both companies?
Sun, 2021-12-19 - 21:36 Permalink
Congratulations to you and the team for the progress so far. Have a safe, enjoyable and rejuvinating holiday break. I look forward to the release in the new year.
Sun, 2021-12-19 - 22:23 Permalink
Patience is a virtue.
By the way, regarding the installer of Synfire 2: Please make it possible to install Synfire 1 and 2 in parallel on one machine. I will certainly use Synfire 2 in the first time only for playing around. For more serious activities I don't like to deal with bugs so much and will rather continue to use Synfire 1 for the time being.
Mon, 2021-12-20 - 03:05 Permalink
Happy Holidays to one and all. Thanks for the hard work Andre and Team! As an old coder, excited to hear about the "music scripting language thingy" you are tinkering with.
Mon, 2021-12-20 - 11:44 Permalink
I'm glad you bring this up, as it is one of the things that happen to unexpectedly delay a release: Deployment. A parallel installation can be very useful indeed. Just think of running a Demo before deciding to upgrade. A lot of thought went into this.
To ensure a seamless upgrade experience (not only from 1 to 2, but also from Sparks to Express to Pro), we improved a few things. Your saved project files are left untouched, but the folder structure has been unified. A previous 'Config' folder is updated and several folders renamed from 'Synfire Pro' to 'Synfire', which is now used by all editions. After an upgrade, you can simply continue with the entire setup you already have. Previously, upgraded installations came up empty.
Also, the Audio Engine (engine, drone plug-ins, plug-in scanner, transport module, etc) is difficult to separate depending on version, because of name clashes, DAWs loading plug-ins automatically, etc. In short: The audio subsystem of the OS is built on the assumption that everyting is global. There is no means for different versions of plug-ins to exist side by side, unless they use different names and identifiers (which breaks your existing projects).
All this makes it hard to support parallel installations. If we solve this for demos, there might be an option though.
Mon, 2021-12-20 - 19:12 Permalink
Just wondering Andre,
In order to sate the horde, why don't you release the documentation for Synfire 2 on the wiki here. That way you will also reduce the admin burden of questions when Synfire launches, and get manageable feedback on the manual itself.
Mon, 2021-12-20 - 19:29 Permalink
That is a splendid idea,and it will be a new experience for me, to actually read a manual first.
Tue, 2021-12-21 - 12:18 Permalink
I have a license question:
When purchasing the upgrade from Synfire Pro 1 to Synfire Pro 2, am I still entitled to run Synfire Pro 1?
I'm planning to run Synfire Pro 2 on my home Mac under MacOS Monterey and alternatively Synfire Pro 1 on my studio computer under Windows 8.
Is this allowed (and modelled by the iLok license management)?
Wed, 2021-12-22 - 23:29 Permalink
I agree this is a great idea, but the documentation is still being worked on, which is one of the bottlenecks I mentioned. But yes, when a first version is complete, we can publish it ahead of the release.
Also, existing users will be able to upgrade as soon as deployment is basically possible. Even if the 'official' launch might be weeks away. Marketing considerations shouldn't affect you much.
Here's a first video with KIM as A.I. assistant helping me out. She can be a bit unruly and obsessed at times, but her reliable articulation is a boon when there's little time for long sessions in the studio. She is slowly becoming dear to my heart ;-)
Wed, 2021-12-22 - 23:37 Permalink
Due to new file formats, you won't be able to use in your studio any files you created at home. Technically, an upgrade converts a license into another, but there are workarounds, should you really need one. Contact me directly for details.
Thu, 2021-12-23 - 00:15 Permalink
Love this Andre
especially libraries with their own racks!
maybe you should rename this to Kimfire
Thu, 2021-12-23 - 15:43 Permalink
> Existing users will be able to upgrade as soon as deployment is basically possible.
Very kind indeed! I would also be happy to sign a non-disclosure agreement to give you extra piece of mind, and likely others too.
Possibly, such early adapters could also provide a service, like acting as testers, or even contributing user content (which you might further curate), giving a bit of a headstart to other users joining later. Just an idea...
Thu, 2021-12-23 - 12:54 Permalink
Hi Andre, when the expected release date of synfire pro 2.0? About...thks
Thu, 2021-12-23 - 13:52 Permalink
Perhaps he better doesn't set any ETA to avoid missing that??
Thu, 2021-12-23 - 14:44 Permalink
Oh, does that mean, that Synfire 1 won't start up with an upgraded license? Good to know if that's the case.
Thu, 2021-12-23 - 15:16 Permalink
To be honest, I'm not 100% sure about the details yet. If there's possibly a way to make existing installations of Synfire 1 accept a Synfire 2 license owned by the same person, that woud be great.
Thu, 2021-12-23 - 15:41 Permalink
I'm not sure about the Ilok licensing system, but for example with Cubase it is possible without any problems to open for example Cubase 6 with a Cubase 10 license. I would assume that this should be possible with Ilok-based systems as well.
Sun, 2021-12-26 - 22:07 Permalink
It's a huge step in the simplification area already when setting up up the sound sources. Please try to have same approach for other key functionalities... I have to say I gave up version 1 (too complex for me and using scaler 2 helped me a lot to go to the point ...even it's not a real prototyping software indeed...)
loooking forward to try synfire 2 !