Posted
This is an example of confusing symbols for 1 instrument to use. ( see pic)
I should also note that I can't follow the tutorial : Optimising Figures nor the tutorial : Figure: Melodies vs Chords
It is written a programming style and is explained too minimal for me to understand it.
Don't know if other Synfire users do have the same experiences about the tutorial quality ?
Sun, 2023-11-19 - 14:03 Permalink
You have no pic attached yet.
I do not share your experience. The existing tutorials (videos and manual) are suffient on the basic topics covered to get started and play around, latter seems to me crutial. Quality is good.
I would like to see more videos though (Quantity).
Sun, 2023-11-19 - 14:34 Permalink
The purple symbols start at a chord note and move on from there along the vertical scale. The blue symbols are relative to the key. They don't care about the current chord (although voice leading will play chord tones where it deems them appropriate).
Use of symbol types is a creative decision of the composer. Nothing technical. Change the types a hear for yourself what happens.
(BTW: You can drop images directly into the editor - I did just that above)
Regarding the written tutorial instructions, I agree that a more casual language here and there might help. However, the subject matter is pretty "technical". Sometimes it requires programming-like wording to avoid ambiguities.
Sun, 2023-11-19 - 15:04 Permalink
Does not concern me here that technical words are used in the explanation, but more about the understanding of certain sentences, because intermediate steps ( explanations) are missing in the explanation seems to me.
Imagine to write your tutorial for a a newcomer....
Sun, 2023-11-19 - 18:44 Permalink
try https://users.cognitone.com/tutorial/figure-segment-types it is a bit more basic than the chords v melodies tutorial. Hopefully a beginner will follow the tutorials in order.
Sun, 2023-11-19 - 21:47 Permalink
Thanks, it is a tricky subject the operation of the symbols.
Of all the symbols used ( except those for the pitch symbol ) , the horizon symbol uses a horizontal scale.
All other symbols ( not pitch symbol ) use a vertical scale.
Which symbols are affected by the harmony parameter ?( so when you use a chord progression) : not the bass and horizontal symbol. ( for a melody ).
Melody, bass and chord progressions (via symbol or intervalconstruction) and whatever remains can be used musically as symbols in Synfire ( H,V,C,P,B,R)
Also of interest is the zero line, because the zero line occurs with the horizontal and vertical symbols ( symbols involving the vertical scale) + pitch symbol ( just divide the symbols into 3 groups for convenience).
Need to figure out exactly how this works with the zero line in relation to the symbols.
The chord symbol and relative symbol are very similar , both use the same zero line based on the chord in the chord progression.
The relative symbol allows you to omit the chord notes or go outside an existing chord note location.
An example would be from the triads to make it a 5 note or 6 note chord using the relative symbol.
Try to get a little more grip on it.
Mon, 2023-11-20 - 11:44 Permalink
I read in tutorial : Melodies vs. Chords.
The magenta Bass Symbols are mapped relative to the current bass interval set in Harmony. As chords change very often, so does the bass. You can use Bass symbols for melodies too, if you want them to start in the lower playing range near the current bass note. Otherwise any type of segment can be assigned to the lower playing range, too.
This is one of the many example how things are not explained.
Symbols are mapped relative to the current bass interval set in Harmony.??
My idea: the bass symbol is based on the chord root in a chord progression, so a bass interval is a interval that occurs between two following chords
So the point is here to explain what is a bass interval set in harmony ?
Mon, 2023-11-20 - 11:53 Permalink
The bass interval is a property of the harmonic context. There are arrow buttons and menus to change it.
Mon, 2023-11-20 - 13:46 Permalink
There is only one bass setting in a single place.
(https://docs.cognitone.com/synfire/EN/concepts/HarmonyContext.html)
Mon, 2023-11-20 - 15:19 Permalink
I was looking into the arrangement screen for the harmonic content
Are there in the arrangement screen any harmony context symbols on there to see and set ?
I remember something about being able to set the harmonic context there, but don't see it yet.
The progression editor , a parameter inspector and have no idea yet how to set things..intuitive ?
Can those harmony context symbols still be placed under a tool tip where they standing for ?
Mon, 2023-11-20 - 15:49 Permalink
What is to set for the chord progression in the arrangement screen if I am not using the progression editor screen.
Do I need the progression editor screen at all ?
Also see a double arrow with 3 dashes ..in the progression in the arrangement screen?
I will look again in the manual and it is explained what is the primary operation of the progression in the arrangement screen.
Looks like this is where I can set the bass (root) note and inversions for a chord and read the chord function, and the scale settings no longer play a role here.
The bass interval mentioned earlier is then the setting for the root note of the chord if I understand it this way, well that is better understood than talking about a bass interval
The bass interval is then a series of bass notes of a chord to set in the tutorial described
This is really the wrong way to use terms and not define them for a user.
If you do this , then people keep asking questions and you waste your time that you could have otherwise spent more usefully.
Mon, 2023-11-20 - 16:30 Permalink
I find them excellent and informative, I do not have the problems you seem to have with them.
Maybe watch all the tutorials at https://users.cognitone.com/tutorial/index in the order they are presented.
Some introduce concepts, others build on that knowledge. Watching one of two at random might mean you might miss the basics of a topic and be lost when the tutorial builds on that knowledge you are missing.
Tue, 2023-11-21 - 01:58 Permalink
Of course I read your post and follow up comments, how else would my replies relate to your post? You seemed to have trouble with symbol types, you seemed to have problems understanding how they fit into harmony, zero interval line, etc, lastly you complained the 2 tutorials you watched were too technical, too much of a programming style, didn't cover the basics. I pointed out that there are more basic tutorials that precede those two that explain the subjects you were having trouble with. These are voiced by Kim and definitely are not too technical nor of a programming style.
Regardless, I won't waste any more time suggesting things that I think may help you, they certainly helped me and thought they would be useful to you too. To me they explained some of the things you were questioning in a less technical/advanced way. Before replying, I took the time to watch the tutorials again to make sure they covered some of the material you were struggling with, I took the time to reply with links and additional information, I've still no idea if you watched them or not, but no matter. I tried to help you, I won't bother in future.
Tue, 2023-11-21 - 06:01 Permalink
The bass interval mentioned earlier is then the setting for the root note of the chord
Not exactly. If you don't enter any bass interval, then a bass symbol on the center line will be rendered as the root note of the chord. But if you enter an interval (e.g. with the arrow keys mentioned above) then the very same bass symbol should play that entered intervall to the root note of the chord. That way you can enter those "shlash chords" like C/E where C means the chord and E the bass.
Thst's at least my understanding of this concept (hope it's correct). But you don't really need to use that bass intervals (and I never do so). Of course you can get the same result if you simply place the bass note on a different line than the center line.
Tue, 2023-11-21 - 10:18 Permalink
Thst's at least my understanding of this concept (hope it's correct). But you don't really need to use that bass intervals (and I never do so). Of course you can get the same result if you simply place the bass note on a different line than the center line.
Thanks, My concern here was the understanding of the word "basinterval" used in the tutorial.
My request was simply to define this term bass interval more clearly in the tutorial and to do this in general defining a certain term clearly , so that reading through the short tutorial on the explanation of the symbols does not raise more questions.
Yes, if you do not enter an interval , then the root note of the bass will end up on the zero line.
Well, for the bass it won't make sense to start setting a bass interval, because you can just draw a bass note on one of the lines, but for a chord it does make a difference.
Tue, 2023-11-21 - 11:17 Permalink
Setting a bass interval is useful only if you use bass symbols, or course.
Bass is also independent of chord inversion. For example, bass may the 5th under a chord played in root position.
Bass choice makes a big difference. You can use it to minimize pitch leaps in a bass line, for example. That's fine tuning depending on playing ranges, keys, etc. I don't bother with it until towards the completion of a piece. Sometimes an entire song needs to be transposed (to a different key) only for the bass sound to move closer to its "sweet spot".
Some cadences also require a certain bass movement, like 7-5-1.