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I studied again the arrangment demo 1 in Synfire pro how this arrangment is build up?
On the container is written wich of the parameters is involved of the parameteblock
- morphing piano
- bass variation
But some composer don't do that..so it is difficult to see on what parameter has been worked on in the container
I remember from working with Fireworks ( graphical editor in Dreamweaver ) that there was a recorder for the construction steps for a grahpical object.
When you were working on a ghraphical object in Fireworks, you could go back to a another workflow and start over again by using the recorder where all steps were recorded.
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Perhaps is this also possible inSynfire to reconstruct what parameter is used in a container ( what parameter snapshots ar made? )
Sun, 2012-01-08 - 23:50 Permalink
Any parameter is green in an instruemet track has had changes made to it, if I'm readiing your question right. I often use Mac application 'Grab' to take snapshots of desktop, to remind me of changes I've made. and to keep things a little more organized. A bit klugy, but far easier that takeing notes.
Mon, 2012-01-09 - 00:33 Permalink
Yes, that hassle with those parameters in the container... i ask my self what has someone done with the instrument in a arrangement (parameter) container.
You do have a bright or dimished indicator ( green color) .
I think you can only see what parameter is involved in a container, if it is not inherited the instrument phrase from the rootcontainer: you must make a snaphot of it than it reveals his parameter( bright color indicator )
Indeed you are right it is a complicated piece of software.
Trial and error is not a good learning strategy and Cognitone must come up to explain the basics of setting up a arrangement with containers and manipulating parameters..they make it foggy
Suppose there is a rootcontainer and you stacked 2 snapshotcontainer a en b on it for a instrument
Suppose you chance a parameter in rootcontainer b than container a will follow this ( container b overrules the parameter in the rootcontainer for container a )
Parameters order goes from bottom to rootcontainer
Is this correct?
Mon, 2012-01-09 - 09:11 Permalink
Yes it does. The lowest container overrides other containers. So if you put a chord progression in the root container, And added a 2nd container with different chords say from measure 33 - 49, those would be the chorus chords. When the timeline goes past the end of the 2nd container, the chords from the root container will be used again.
In a way it's kind of neat cause if you have a piano container playing the first 32 bars, but you want to try a new idea create a 2nd container which plays your new part, If you don't like it you can toss it, or manipulate with parameters. By manipulating the parameters you can get even a plain riff kinda intersing. Ungroup and regoup some notes differently, Change the anchor point and then have SFP re-analyze these.
I believe when their are no parameters, present in an instrument whatever paramaters for that instrument in an older container will work. As soon as you click on a parameter it turns green as you change the values.. I'm guessing that SFP supplies some neutral parameters when you start an arrangement (speculation, not sure)
It is very slow going learning SFP, But I can already see the great value of it.. It's already got me using some of the same techniques in Logic Pro. I take a riff and move it down the timeline. I have a track that has just the chords and are muted. You can export that from SFP and import into your DAW as a visual reference, or I use it to drive the style generators in Tyros 4.
By displaying both the muted chords of the song and the new misplaced melody I can edit my moved melody riff. I copy a part from one instrument and assign to another and modify it a bit, or slide back in time.
SFP has certainly loosened up some of my ideas about making music.. The ease with which you can change and vary chords is amazing. Regular DAWs, you'd have to redo every track to fit if you substituted 4 bars of different chords.
I'm gonna upload one of my songs, but leave it a cognac file, with general midi than others can see how I'm approaching and in return they could show and explain some of what they are doing.. There's so much to learn about this software, I'm just taking it slow and easy. One day I'll spend a lot of time with it. 2nd day I'll just work with Logic and Tyros 4. I'm having goo luck with working on midi files and moving them back and forth between two programs as long as I keep to GM for the beginning stages.
Learning SFP is a good oportunity to practise your patience and powers of observation.
Mon, 2012-01-09 - 12:25 Permalink
Learning SFP is a good oportunity to practise your patience and powers of observation.
Yeah, that is in fact for all new software to get used of it after a while..it becomes much easier when you now how it works
Take as example the figures pattern..
I like to study also the arrangementexamples of other people to learn from too.
It is only that you not always can see at first sight what parameter has been chanced in a container
I take the example of the arrangement demo 1 : look at the container Bass variations..it shows no parameter.
The Container parameter (see parameterblock) shows the global vector parameters for the instruments : those vectors affect all instruments in the container.
When i open the Bass Variation container .. ido see a inherited instrument figure,but nothing to see what parameter is involved
That is a problem , because i cannot learn from this, what has the composer intended to do here ? ..the only way to find out what
is going on here is to click on the figure : Do you want make a snapshot of Figure and edit it ? --yes or no
The figure and Variation indicator are bright now.. so the figure and variation parameter are actual
I know now that the Variation parameter is involved!..
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To see what parameter is involved in a container is possible when you see a snapshot of it and put the spantool cursor in a figure
MUCH BETTER IS.. go to the instrument sheet : select a container in the arrangementview and click on the instrumentname in the instrumentsheet .. than all parametersa involved in this container is showing up
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Composing is also start from nothing with a melody or some chords .. how about that .. i draw a melody for a melody motif ( by working with the symbols in SFP it is the rhythm and pitch to look at )
Quote book:
It is far easier to get the melody down first, make it interesting, and add chords afterwards, You will discover that a melody often suggests a the harmony anaway.
It depends on the style of music, of course , but when when you add the harmony avoid having the bass constanly following the chords in root position. ONe way to get a moreinteresting harmonic structure is through careful construction of th e bass line . Make it distinctive. Give it a life of its own and where possible, and appropiate, have it move to the opposite direction to the melody. This will give nearly always good result. This movement inevitably provides interesting inversions and passing notes
end Quote
There is a problem now how to follow the tutorial about composing, because it is all explained in notes symbols..so i must make a translation from the notes to the symbols ??
I do have here a eight rest and a tied eight note..
If i find a way to bring this easy in SFP?
Than i must now exactly the note pitch and rhytm and translate this too SFP and than it look s like traditional composing in a DAW: start with a melody motif and extends the melody
Than by hand adding a bass and chord an so on ..is this also a way to work SFP other than using imported midi files ?
There are o lot of ready made midi melodies to use..so this can also be used a starting point for composing
It is also good to have a large library of midi phrases to use for the arrangement
Well the micro editing on note level should be replaced by the symbols ( drawing ) , but to follow a composing tutorial in notes.. seems to be a problem?
As example:
Musical objectives : project 6: a football theme
- Construct a melody froma small melodic "cell" by applying repetition and pitch variation
_ Compose a rhythmic bass part to complement the newly invented melody and consider the harmonic possibilities this implies.
- Use three-part sectional harmony to build a "brass section"
- Use tenor sax or another instrument to provide an improvised solo behind themain melody
Further i do see also the use of a audio wave file instrument( or e.g voice)..can this be done also in SFP?
I di have mixed feelings about SFP..can i follow a composingtutorial and get the notes as symbols by hand in Synfire pro easy
This is only the start of the composition..