Setup With external MIDI Hardware

After a couple more viewings I have rewire working. Both programs show transport activity.  I started with SFP 
"Arrange: Arrangement Demo 1".  I created the drones etc. It uses all GM instruments.  

Here is where I got lost.  I could move all ports to Logic Drones however, the GM instruments no longer play.  Changing the first track was fine, but the rest of the tracks would not operate the same as your video. Relocate was blocked out.  Does this proceedure require that you only use private plug-ins?

I'm guessing I have to use something like Kontakt, (although Logic will easily play GM instruments)

Some of the tracks were orange and some were green.  I believe I had to change these over to private plugins.  

What is the status of the AUDIO - MIDI SETUP page.  A picture of that would have been helpful..  I'm sure I've probably got something wrong there.  What are the port settings like, what is device setting like? Here's where I'm stuck.  I'm going to muck about for a while, to see if I come up with it.. until I hear from you.

The videos without voice and music examples really are barely above a written description.

You need to think about the proper set-up (whether that's the same video - or refer to another setting up different kind of ports, and devices, etc)

You need to ponder some of the pitfalls people will make,  Because of screen size I didn't realize you had hit the TIME button, (which only makes sense) to get to external sync (I'd never seen that window before so you need to explain that as you move the cursor)

You might point out althernatives.  For instance sometimes I get SFP to recognize each channel of Tyros 4, on some tracks, it is preset to an already used track, and I can't change it.   For better or worse, I created additional devices Tyros 4 plus the impossible to reach MIDI channel.  It's a temporary work around.  

I would humbly suggest you put up a prelimanary video and ask people to try to follow it, have them give feedback of how it went for them, fine, where they got hung up etc.  and any other input they give and then collate this and use it in the dialogue  of possibly a pdf page, they open in another window.

All of your users are coming from very different areas and inclinations. That's what I ascertain from the posts and the music available.. There are obviously a handful of people that are more knowledgeable. Perhaps some would rather not pose a question (and appear as 'slow' or not intelligent enough)

Thanx...

Once SFP has defined a device, I can't get it to redefine to private midi..  (but, oversight, my stupididy?).  In the meantime I export each SFP independently.  I create an empty new arrangement, and open enough instruements all set to private midi, then static phrase import MIDI tracks  one by one.  A truly laborious process.

Say I open a SFP project I've done in past, and decide I want to change all instruments to a new midi hardware device, please tell me I can do that without going thru procedure described above.

I also llike to see a drag/drop or copy/paste feature from one of SFP instruments directly into a DAW. (instead of having to transform into a drone.  This one by one method takes way too much time.  I have learnt over time, because of Software, system crashes, hardware changes, it is a good idea to individually each MIDI track as a seperate entity, in calse some disaster hits your computer. 

Also many people using hardware synths (still use a virtual instruments, but much more satisfied by liveness of hardwarre these days). don't need the sophistacation of your virtual instruments category, etc.  Because it's doubtful, with the amount of synths out there especially old ones, that SFP definitions will ever be written.  The truth is, most of the new hardware, already has catagories, which are much faster, and more fun to selectly byva few button pushes on their front panel.  The less mouse use the better.

 It took me a while to relize I must select catogry and sound then MIDI.  I was selecting MIDI channel first, then patch, of course category undoes that.  Not all users are going to want to work that way.  I suggest that hardware users, just do their setup from instrument page, pick port, channel, sound.  Let changes made there be reflected back to MIDI SETup Page. 

The audio midi setup with devices, private devises, ports, shared racks is one hot mess of confusion to me.  If there was a simple basic english description along with a blow by blow video, perhaps, I would fall in love with it. 

Too me there are certain areas in SFP, where there is no analog counterpart to any other piece of software. But in the areas that there are comparable features, picking sounds, settings adsr;s etc. (I would love to see CC event editing, but may be too much for SFP or you to deal with right now). You need to follow standard convention a bit more.  There is SO MUCH to learn in SFP, 

I understand I'm coming from a different place, (mathmatically, musically, knowledge, etc) from you but you have to think about where other SFP and potential SFP people will be coming from.  For many the XTRA steep learning curve, will drive them away..  I've been tempted to give up on SFP.  But God Damn I will not throw away the huge amount of money I spent on a piece of software.  I've never bought software so expensive..

I DO SEE that it is worth it.  It;s complexity, power, and conception of purpose puts in on a par of the first synths, or the first DAWs run on home computers.  I'm not sure how many SFP users want to get into the music depths that you want to expose to us.  But this is far more fun, and I'm learning complex issues about harmony, modalities, counterpoint, the average self taught musician will never even become aware of.  

Musically abd sympathetically yours, 

Mark Styles

Question "Once SFP has defined a device, I can't get it to redefine to private midi."

Answer "You can: Select "Private MIDI" instrjment type, then in the options menu next to the Device Description name, pick "Insert Device Description". This will copy a shared device into your arrangement, so you can use all its sounds."

I'm sorry Andre, I'm still not getting it..  I did somehow manage to create a song with private Midi (all channels direct).  I made a lot of changes in many containers.  To clean it up. I exported it. Then imported it again into a new arrangement, all tracks static.  The problem is it comes up as a shared rack, and all channels are dynamic. so they've all swtiched totally throwing off what DSP's I've set up in T4.  The T4 cannot save DSP assignments to Direct MIDI channels coming in, it only saves it's DSP assignments  to it's internal style generators. 

When I try to select Private MIDI it always goes to Private plug-in (which I can't use if I want to send to a particular T4 midi channel.  Is there something I have to reset in Audio-midi setup?

a 2nd question although I have several AU virtual instruments - none of them show up in SFP.  Is there a special step for scanning?.  They are in system components (not user components)

Thanx 

I rescanned plugins - got a crash.  Sent you a crash report.  SFP stopped seeing T4. Apogee Duet now occassionally acts up since going to 10.7.4  Although they won't admit anything, tell you to uninstall and reinstall, sometimes live input has a flanging sound like two  sets of signals are being sent (no not Logic software monitor), other times input will register, but not be passed to outputs..

So I shut every thing off and started again.  Is it enough to quit SFP and restart, or shut off machine and restart to get SFP to recognize newly added AU's after scan?  

I tried to prove you wrong about the private midi. I tried it dozens of times the other day,and couldn't get private midi to work tried every combination in audio midi set-up. it made to difference.  The proper set up for private midi only would be a midi set up alone, no plug-ins, or can I have plug-ins also on another port.  (Still a lot of audio - midi setup eludes me)?\

But it worked perfrectly.  But what puzzled me is according to Audio Midi Setup I had no hardware connected. All the other times, I had T4 'connected', that is about the only thing I see different,  I still must be missing something. 

I closed project and reopened and T4 was selected as an instrument.   

Well thanx for now..  not sure what changed, if I can duplicate results I'll try to make a movie of it..

Another work around I found was to rewire SFP and Logic together.  Have Logic play the bulk of the song.  Create a chord trackn in Logic, (full note chords blocked for proper length = all legato), import that into SFP and create parts and harmonize to that chord progression.  That way I can try out many ideas, only using a few tracks of SFP, while Logic is carrying the bulk of song.   I know you may not have had that in  mind, but it's one method.  When I iron out my knowledge issues of SFP' in/outs,  I'll change the method.  But it suffices for me now, on some projects. 

One issue I notice when importing an arrangement file is that SFP creates MSB/LSB/PROG all on first count for all instruments.. That is sometimes too much data for hardware (T4) sometimes some voices come up wrong.  I had to go back and select catagory and instrument for all voices (although I name them instrument + MIDI channel. I suggest you stagger their output so hardware can keep up.  (I don't think T4 is particularly slow, so it's might be worse on other instruments). 

This raises the question if you leave import controllers checked when you import a file do you include a program change?. (msb/lsb without a program change is bad, most likely resulting in a non existant patch. Luckily T4 displays a generic keyboard icon, when there is no such patch so it's easy to chase down problems) Technically a program change is not a controller, although most hardware doesn't differentiate between program change and CC event.  

I can easily figure that out just by song, or looking at earlier version of song, and see what each track was doing. 

SFP seems to WANT to have category and sound defined, even if it receive msb/lsb/prog right?   I'm not asking for any code rewrite, just that there be an explanation so I'm clear on correct proceedures.  

Thanx again.....

Mark

THANX.. 

I don't want to appear as coming off too demanding or unintelligent, or ungrateful.  Hopefully these posts will come in helpful later with people dealing with SFP and an M3, Kronos, or Motif hardware... 

I'd still be really stuck, if you hadn't created the device list for me.  THANKS again.. You're work, patience, preserverence is muchly appreciated. 

Mark

Thanx.... I'm not alone.... For a while there I thought I was stuck in a "state of senior moments"....

Logic 9 is MSB/LSB/PROG.   Logic 8 was NOT. 

In Logic i always use measure 0 for count-in and control sequence set up.

See Logic Control Seq.  I'll also stagger where the conrol seq starts so that not all 16 - 26 MIDI channels  (on T4 I use Port B)  are being set at once. 

How but this scnerio?  Synfire "send all program changes"  staggered (if it isn't already.  And SFP ignores MSB/LSB/PROG when playing the song?

I don't know how you're imp;lementing it now, but if I open a saved song in SFP occassionally.  Not all MIDI channels have right sound.  And onnce in a while the sound will change on start up when I'm in the middle of a SFP session.  

Something else is odd, cause 'category and program sometimes revert to nothing.  Not sure how, if something, I'm doing or a bug.  If I can find a deflinable situation I'll let you know.  

On export it would be helpful if MSB/LSB/PROG were staggered.  Otherwise I have to go in and edit all channels, maybe if control data started on first measure (call it measure 0) then all music data started on measure 1.  That way DAWs, could cut the first measure of all tracks, and stagger them with the pre-delay command)  Logic has a time command which lets you slide tracks forwards/backwards by 1 click up to a measure or more.  I'd assume all DAW's have that. That wouldn't be too much work. Then just more the rest of the cut tracks to start at measure one. 

Logic has something like a 'back up the start point'  start at measure 0, start at measure -1, -2 etc.  What if you're working with smpte don't you need some settle time also?  Isn't it kind of relative to call measure one - zero.  You need that for songs with pick-up notes.