Why i can't record the triggerpads chords from HALion4 into Synfire?

With triggerpads it seems that i not get a note on/off midi message. 
How can i chance the triggerpad in HALion 4 that it sends note on/off to Synfire Express to record this ?

I don't have Halion 4 but Halion Sonic that also has those trigger pads. The trigger pads can be controlled by external MIDI data but they don't produce MIDI output that could be recorded. They only operate within Halion. So I think you're out of luck.

As Juergen says, this is the fault ... if you want to call it that ... of Halion, not Synfire.

You cannot expect Synfire make another program do what the program itself cannot do.

When you trigger the pads with the chords, they are triggered by a single midi note ... which, as you probably know, you can change as assigned to any pad. But that midi note triggers the chord INTERNALLY to Halion. Even Cubase cannot do what you want ... unless there is a hidden way to get Halion to ouput this midi.

Have you asked on the Steinberg forums?

Janamdo wrote: By the way.. next week i got some new monitor boxes , but perhaps i do need a new controller keyboard too ?

I'm not sure what you are asking. In my opinion there are only 3 considerations other than price: 1) are there enough keys on the controller for your use; 2) is the feel of the keys and keyboard, i.e., semi-weighted, etc., adequate to your playing style; and, 3) are the other controller functions, i.e., encoders, sliders, buttons, etc., adequate to your needs?

As I am a 'hack,' non-performing user of keyboards, #3 is most important to me.

I should add that many like an actual synth with keyboard to use as that gives them an additional sound source.

Is it possible maybe to change the chain? If you go from pads to synfire to cubase to halion, you will get the audio but the midi from the pads will be recorded. Does that solve your problem?

Is it possible maybe to change the chain? If you go from pads to synfire to cubase to halion, you will get the audio but the midi from the pads will be recorded. Does that solve your problem?

He wants to capture the midi data sent internally to Halion from the pads. The pads permit you to place 8 differnt chords or sequences on each. The pads are easily triggered externally from midi input, but the midi they generate is not sent out of the instrument.

The pads are very useful for someone working within Cubase or any DAW supporting VSTi ... they just don't function as Jan wishes.

There is no practical use of it, you cannot add a chord in Cubase 6.5 by recording or using in the keyeditor.

What makes it very useful than Prado,  other than i described earlier ?

Jan ... you made a categorical statement 'there is no practical use of it ..."

This is incorrect. Many people find it very useful as you can exactly create the chords you want in the key you want and the inversions you want and then trigger them with midi in your composistion, sequenced as you see fit.

It is true that it will only produce audio output in the DAW. However, those chords could still be used in conjunction with Synfire or for any other purpose.

Personally, I love midi. But I would not say that this type of instrument has "no practical use." For your workflow that may be true. But you make the statement as though it were true for everyone, and that would be incorrect.

I take my time to help you and others understand things when I believe there is a misunderstanding I can help with ... exactly as on this topic of the 'fix' for triggering Halion pads from Synfire. I'm no Juergen or blacksun, but I try to do what I can.

You seem a bright and creative person, but you seem to become bombastic when something doesn't work the way you think it should.

Perhaps it's time in your Bach studies  to tackle the Well Tempered Klavier?

Peace

Jan ... 'Well Tempered Klavier' was a pun. In English, well tempered means to stay calm and avoid strong emotional reactions.

I'm not really an expert ... but more of a person who knows some things well.

Since I use Synfire to support my work flow ... prototyping in GM and exporting a midi file, I still have work to do in my DAW.

The way to use the trigger pads is to set up chords you want to use in your composition. Each pad can be programmed with a different chord. Then you use a midi file in the DAW to send a 'note on' message to which ever chord you want to be played. This way you can precisely trigger the different chords from this midi file at the time you want in your project. It is just like playing the keyboard, but each pad can also be programmed to which ever midi note you want to use. When those midi notes are assigned, they won't play the instrument in Halion, but they will instead trigger the pad ... which plays the chord for the duration of the midi note ... just as it would play it for the duration if you clicked on the pad with your mouse and held it down.

I hope this helps. :-D

I do now see a clearly a use of the triggerpads in Cubase..they should than also work on the same way in Synfire 

Yes, if you mean that you could use static phrases to trigger the chords or notes for a drone you had programmed in the pads in Halion and then send them back from a midi drone. It would be awkward, as they wouldn't transpose according to prototyping ... so every time you changed your chord in Synfire you would have to make sure you changed your static trigger note at the same point in the arrangement.

It would probably be much easier to simply add a midi track in Cubase triggering the pads and manually syncing with synfire on a bar by bar basis.

I'm also no sure whether you can 'latch' the keys used to trigger the pad. If not, you would have to create very long static notes in Synfire.

Even though the pads can be triggered by midi, they are not really that midi friendly. They probably only permit a few expressive parameters such as velocity ... but I haven't looked into them that deeply. Many people using them will probably be using their audio effects to provide movement to the generated sounds.

Given that its relatively easy to create interesting chords that follow a chord progression in synfire and the resultant output can drive halion directly via a drone, why bother with the pads? The only use I can think of is to jam along live with the song using the pads as a single key automatic chord generator, and by live I mean playing them in real time in front of an audience.
Of course if you didn't have synfire then they might be useful in a production studio setting, but you do. (Sorry for the double email....) a similar effect can be achieved using the synfire palette and you can get hints about which chords work and even save the progression.

I don't really disagree ... my points were that, no, you cannot capture the trigger pad midi data, and, no, the pads are not "useless," even though they are clearly less useful in Synfire.

I can still imagine uses of them though from SF Express when you are limited to 16 MIDI channels. For an example, you are running out of midi channels and decide to add your chords for some instrument in Cubase while syncing with the SF output. You can do this by creating a midi track directly in your DAW, or more cleaverly using the static notes from a Synfire Instrument/ Arranger track which you route to an additional midi input in your DAW, filter out the midi messages so that only the lower octave with your static trigger notes passes to the instrument and 'voila' ... you have 17 instruments. In essence every Synfire Instrument/ Arranger Track could carry a second bit of midi data to trigger an additioinal instrument in your DAW. There are many midi instruments that work the same way as the Halion pads, i.e., a note on message triggers some preprogrammed chord or sequence.

In part, this is why I prefer generating midi to my DAW than using 'devices.' The voice choice is up to me ... not Synfire if my preferred voice is already being used by another instrument in the Arrangement. I can take the same Synfire midi output from one instrument and route it to multiple midi tracks hosting different actual instruments. I can then filter the data in many ways. I can take a solo line and create chords by using the Cubase midi modifier plugin to set them to different intervals and the same key. I can transpose it by semitones or octaves, I can send it through an arp, I can differentially automate parts with CC. The possibilities are endless.

A lot of these conversations return to the fundamental issue of whether you are trying to use Synfire in a performance or a production setting. In the latter you will presumptively want to create audio data for mixing. In that context the Halion pads and similar devices become more useful.