Arranger midi keyboard connected with Synfire

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janamdo's picture
janamdo
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Arranger midi keyboard connected with Synfire

Is it possible to connect Synfire with my arranger keyboard PSR SX600 for acting as a soundmodule ?

The arranger keyboard has a USB cable to computer connected and has 16 midi channels 

Idea is to play/record on 16 midichannels in Synfire , so i  can record styles from the keyboard directly in Synfire and listening to this via arranger keyboard. 

There is a Midi port : Digital keyboard-1 in Synfire , but how about digtal keyboard out  ?( because the midi must be send to the midi  arranger keyboard  
Seems to be possible in Cubase to connect the psr sx600 

I found in Synfire for the external global rack ( connected with PSR SX600) the output :Digital Keyboard-2..could now play a sound from the keyboard on midi channel 1 via Synfire .

Probably its  be possible to connect this keyboard with 16 midi channels to Synfire, but it is probably plug and play. ( usb cable to computer and no midi configuration). 
The midi implentation seems to me ok , but i must set some midi options in keyboard ?
I must record a style  on midi channel  9 to 16 ..no 

I think i solved it: recording styles on arranger keyboard and import this in Synfire ( must this test further) :  playing the style in Synfire is to hear on he keyboard. 
Can also  record on midi channels in Synfire with the keyboard arranger sounds 

  
 

 

janamdo's picture
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I am afraid i am lost with this midi setup 
In order toget this working i enclosed a refenrence manual for midi from the keyboard PSR SX600 
I am convinced that the midi specifications are ok 

The keyboard is receiving  midi messages from Synfyre midi racks
To get this done...
- midiracks configuration in Synfire 
- keyboard midi configuration receiving (see reference manual) 

Note i: in Cubase i can import direktly styles .psr , so  th epsr sx 600 soundmodule can also be connected in Cubase i think

Midi reference manual PSR SX600 : https://app.box.com/s/jsmh60je5py9azhgmj21k6709dove9e6

janamdo's picture
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Must i use Clock Ext. ?  as usertemplate 

Playback or recording (Song, Style, Multi Pad, etc.) synchronizes with an external MIDI clock instead of the instrument’s internal clock. This template should be used when you wish to set the tempo on the MIDI device connected to the instrument.

 

Then i could record a style in Synfire ?

 

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I think it is easier to figure this out this midi setup first for Cubase : style + melody recording =  performance..later for Synfire
So if there a Cubase midi setup experts here on the forum ?

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Got a advice to forget the recording in Cubase of a style + melody 
Ok, then i can load a style into Synfire if it is possible or record the style on the PSRSX600 itself 
Now only the midisetup for Synfire to know?

A warning if i should record it into Cubase

If you do it this way, you will have all the required MIDI data (including GM&XG Resets, global SysEx, Bank Select / Program Change, the Voice Set of the Voices used, other MIDI controllers and effects SysEx) in the MIDI file (and then automatically in the DAW). But if you were to record your performance in the DAW via MIDI, you would have to manually enter all of these data into the DAW afterwards. And this is next to impossible ...

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Was there a video made for connecting Synfire to a external Midi soundmodule

Used a global midi output rack ( no GM ) , but don't know how the suondassigning work on the rack .

Seems to be in Cubase that setting to port 1 for output that's   all ....INDEED  only digital-1  as output port and within a minute i play the style  In Cubase
via loudspeakers of keyboard 
What must i do for this in Synfire ?  

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you can simply change a Style extension from e.g. .prs to .sty on the computer. But the question is if SFF2 Styles (introduced with Tyros3 and PSR-S910) are supported by your program (or only SFF1). (You should be able to find this information in the manual of that program.)
 

Has synfire support for this  ..SFF2  style format at the moment  ?

blacksun's picture
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Had a quick look through the keyboard manual. It seems to have so many options, but it isnt clear it will do what you want. It seems you would need to select one template to use it as a midi keyboard and a different one to have synfire drive it. Also not sure if it would send the midi notes that result from selecting different styles or just the notes that are recognised as "keyswitches" to turn on the different styles.
If you have it working in cubase, then why not just record all the midi notes into cubase, then export them, import into synfire and use the command/control E to copy the different parts into a library.

If you just want to use the keyboard as a midi device to play and record into synfire and have synfire be able to use it as an external midi synth then you should be able to do that but it looks like you might need to configure your own template. You would probably need local mode off (so the notes only get sent to synfire), external midi clock (so synfire controls the timing), loopback turned on in synfire (so when you press a key on the keyboard and synfire recieves it, it gets sent out to the instrument), set up the midi input settings in synfire to match those on your keyboard, and create a 16 channel synth device in synfire with the sound types you want. Not sure if the keyboard responds to patch change messages, if not then you wont be able to change the instruments/patches in synfire. Again if you have this working in cubase, I presume there is some vsti or something the cubase uses, if so you could try using that in a drone, if not then you could try a midi drone.

 

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Blacksun thanks!

My main concern is  if  can use the whole soundmodule from the keyboard psr sx600 within synfire?

A answer can only give Cognitone i think unfortunaly.

Jan 
 

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If the sound module supports midi, and the virtual midi device can be accessed from an application without having to install a vst or other plugin, then yes you can use it. How easy it is to use depends on the midi implementation on the sound module and how much time you want to spend creating a device. Worst case senario, it will listen to midi notes and expressions but not respond to patch change messages, so you would have to select the sounds on the module and in synfire just select a sound category that is similar.

One of my synths is has really basic support for midi and uses proper midi cables, it has 10 drum parts, 3 digital synth parts and 1 analogue part. I use this with synfire but have to manually select the sounds on the synth for each part, I can't change them from the computer in any DAW or synfire.

I also have another synth that has virtual midi (and audio) cables and a control plugin (vst and au), this does respond to patch changes, but rather than create a device description that covers the 1000s of sound patches I own, I use it with the control plugin to control sounds (in synfire i just select a suitable instrument to get approximate playing ranges).

You may also run into problems with midi devices on windows if you need to share them between applications, but it depends on the driver.

 

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There is a USB cable to computer used for the PSRSX600 keyboard
I found a  datalist for SX600 with all sorts of data for  the midi outputrack  :  https://app.box.com/s/c19gue2s0ehc2vg7lxijrp5mj2uza1x0

Maybe the datalist can be used by Cognitone too for the .psr style specification?

A device description for the SX600 soundmodule .. a midnam file ? 
Don't think no one has made such midnam file for SX600. 

 

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Unfortunaly don't get the Yamaha PSR SX600 to use as a soundmodule
Got here a voicenumber example  : msb - lsb -pc     , pc is patchnumber + programnumber i think

Filling in a rack thisvoice  with this 3 numbers and miditemplate on:  song  template  in sx600 
No sound to hear from the tonegenerator of sx600 with a phrase 

 

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Start with setting the patches manually on the sound module. you will need to setup the instrument in synfire with a suitable category, give the sound a name, select the right midi device and channel,etc. The instrument in synfire has to be green.

Once you know it is sending midi to the sound module and you can hear it, then it's worth starting down the path of creating a device for it.If the midi isnt getting to the sound module from synfire then the patch change commands wont either.

 

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Thanks 

I was thinking that the rackmodule in syfire transmitted the voice message ..
This is a other approach , so first choose a sound on SX600 with the midi song template 
I will this try out.. :) 

Note: has some interesting soundstypes  : Live!, Cool!,  S. Art ( advanced sound depends on playstyle)  

 

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One thing to be aware that if i should use only the SX600 sounds, there is no easy midi to wave file conversion possible in Synfire.
I must the arrangement midi loading in SX600 and there do maybe more mixing ( singing is possible on SX600)  and  do in SX600  a midi  to wav conversion.(possible?) 
Can use also monitor speakers on SX600.   

Probably i want upgrade to a higher arranger if there is new model coming with better handling.

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Yes, i can do a midi to wav conversion on SX600
Awesome. .works great with a usb stick
Then a can it be used as a soundmodule, but now only try to setup his soundmodule 

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I'm afraid you've got me confused now. Not sure why you need a midi to wave file conversion? Synfire generates midi, soft synths (vsti) or real synths (including samplers) take the midi and convert it into audio which can be recorded by the daw, or synfire (in the case of soft synths loaded in the engine) or alternatively it can be sent to speakers/headphones. In fact I've now lost what you are trying to achieve or even what the sx600 is?

 

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When a soundmodule is used inside Synfire and a arrangement is made.
I can make a wav file in Synfire itself from the (midi) arrangement 

Using a external (outside Synfire ) soundmodule from my keyboard (Yamaha  PSR SX600)  for a arrangement i could not make a wav file from it inside Synfire i think.
So i must load the (midi) arrangement made with the SX600 sounds  into the SX600 keyboard and make there a midi to wave file 

I am not using a DAW here

Hopefully its clear now..

note: this all after i can first connect synfire to the SX600 keyboard sounds.
 

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Does the SX600 not have a way to record to a wav file while you play on the keyboard live? If it does, it should also work if the notes are played by synfire via midi.
In my setup the output from my synths goes into an audio interface which i use to record in a daw. So some of my audio comes from the synths via an audio device, some comes from my mic via the audio device and some comes from the output of of vsti plugins directly in my daw. Synfire does not have support for an audio in to its mixer, so I basically use a DAW as a recording mixer and only use the synfire engine for rough sketches and prototyping.

 

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Yes, the SX600 records to a wav file during play its possible ( USB audio player),  so it must be also working with midi from synfire to SX600 ( setup?)
Its indeed for rough recording a song as wavefile in Synfire 

But thinking about is it better to do the midi to wav inside SX600 with a mixer and there adding more mixing.
Its not really hightech mixing to make a song on this way, but it goes faster with the SX600. 

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Ok, i connect a sound from SX600 to Synfire and  the rack color is green

Playing a phrase ..nothing to hear 
Must be there be not given a program chance command send to the SX600 ? ..before the phrase hearable is ?

I changed to port 2 and now i hear a sound! ( thought it must be port 1 from a advice, but its now another midi template in SX600: song  )

If also the styles .psr can be loaded into Synfire ( depends on Cognitone ) a styles library can be made for Synfire to get more grips on style composing

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