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Confused about synfire detection

Posted

Hi

I have created in ableton for testing purpose a simple midi file with the three notes C D G of the triad Csus2

I have imported it into synfire and it detects it with the monophonic (melodic) preset (you can see in the picture)

I have draged from the palette the chord Csus2 into the Arrangement and dragged from the library the midi file imported with the notes C3 D3 & G3 into an instrument track.The figure rec ognition of the take is the same as the synfire original detection.

I have draged the midi from Synfire to Ableton to see the notes that synfire detects and are D4 G4 C5

Why synfire detects these notes? Different than the original notes C3 D3 G3 if i have imported into the Arrangement from the palette the Csus2 ?

In the take of the synfire track if i uncheck the Transpose box then yes detects the original C3 D3 G3

Then how works this transpose parameter? Why transpose,move it to D4 G4 C5?

Best

Mario


Sat, 2015-02-14 - 20:14 Permalink

Just a guess, but could it be because of the playing range of whatever instrument you're using?

Sun, 2015-02-15 - 01:09 Permalink

As well as the playing range, it could also be that Synfire has made the highest note the Anchor.  You can override this in the take manually, by grouping the notes together and making the lowesst note the anchor before appying the recognition.  What happens if you do that?

Sun, 2015-02-15 - 02:59 Permalink

Hi

Boydbob & Petearch a lot of thanks for your help ;)

I have tested both advices and still does not reflect the original C3 D3 G3

Only this is possible if i uncheck the transpose box

If i have done in my gif videos something wrong, please tell me it

Best

Sun, 2015-02-15 - 05:09 Permalink

Another possibility.

I use both Reaper and Studio One DAWs.

I was doing some note based articulations and they weren't working in Reaper.

It turned out that Reaper's midi note names were an octave lower than the same note names in Studio One.

In other words, could your DAW use a different octave for the notes than Synfire does?

To test, export your midi and open it in another DAW (or two) and see what happens.

Or listen to see if the same notes in Synfire are actually an octave higher.

Sun, 2015-02-15 - 13:47 Permalink

I actually meant change the anchor in the Take, you're changing it in the Figure.  Try selecting the Take in the phrase editor, changing it as I said above, then doing another figure recognition.

Sun, 2015-02-15 - 16:08 Permalink

Hi

Thanks to Boydbob & Petearch for help me

Boydbob yes,you have reason.Depends of the daws the octave of the notes will be shown differents.

I use Ableton & Reaper.I created the example midi file with C3 D3 G3 in Ableton and if i open it in Reaper it shows C4 D4 G4 by default but this is possible to correct in Reaper.

You can see the picture,in the preferences changing the Midi Octave name display ofset octaves.

In Synfire i don,t know what is the default octave showed and if is possible to change it as in Reaper?

Petearch guauuuu at the end i got !!!!  yes i was doing wrong because i thought it was not possible to change the anchor in the take view.

A lot of thanks,is amazing.Synfire hidden secrets too important but thanks to experts like you are revealed ;)

Best

Sun, 2015-02-15 - 17:05 Permalink

If that's the case, the simplest thing might be to lower by one octave, anything that's going into Synfire.

 

Unfortunately, there is a lot of variation between programs as to the correct octave for a given note number, but once you know what they are, you can compensate, at least.

Sun, 2015-02-15 - 18:28 Permalink

Strange how it still sets the highest note as the anchor after recognition.  I originally meant to group the notes first in the Take (you can do that as well) and then make the lowest note the anchor.  Would be interesting to know what happens if you do that.

There is this quote about it in the manual:

Human eyes are still superior to technology. If you already have a specific idea as to which segments the figure should contain, you can already start to group and select the symbol type in Take, exactly as you would with a figure (see "Phrase Editor"). The figure recognition will gratefully accept your assistance and deliver appropriate results.

Mon, 2015-02-16 - 03:38 Permalink

Hi

Now the middle note has the blue triangle over its head after recognition.

The anchor key is the square grey,then now we have two anchor keys,the lowest and the middle notes.

I don,t know what means the blue triangle?  I suspect that means that sounds one octave higher but when i play it sounds normal?

Another thing...as you can see in my gif videos when i drag the midi from synfire to ableton with drag+space the transport play in synfire runs,is this normal or there is any way to avoid it?

 

Best

 

Mon, 2015-02-16 - 08:52 Permalink

Now the middle note has the blue triangle over its head after recognition.

The anchor key is the square grey,then now we have two anchor keys,the lowest and the middle notes.

If I see things correctly in your video, you have not grouped the three notes to a figure-segment, but only the first and the last note are grouped. The middle note remains isolated. Therefore you have actually two figure segments and therefore two anchors. 

I don,t know what means the blue triangle?

It means that this figure-segment (in this case only the middle note) is assigned to the upper playing range of the instrument. You can change the assigned playing range with the playing range buttons at the tool bar.

 

Mon, 2015-02-16 - 22:10 Permalink

Hi

My dear teacher Juergen yeahhhh!!!! you have reason.I was selecting wrong.

Now i have grouped the three notes and works perfect & thanks for clarify the means of the blue triangles

Thanks to all Boydbob * Petearch & Juergen for your great help ;)

Best

Mario