How to make a tempo track and signature track in Synfire

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janamdo's picture
janamdo
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How to make a tempo track and signature track in Synfire

How  to make these tracks in Synfire : tempo and signature ?
No idea how to do this..

 

petearch's picture
petearch
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Last seen 23 min 30 sec ago

I think containers might be the answer.

You could try making a MIDI file in Cubase with the tempo going up and down like a fiddler's elbow, import it to Synfire and see what it does?

Pete

petearch's picture
petearch
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Actually, I've just checked the manual.  You can draw a tempo map like any other parameter in Pro (not Express).

Pete

janamdo's picture
janamdo
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That's a idea, but i like to do right it way in Synfire.

Like a fiddler's elbow ..haha
Perhaps with a windcontroller, but you must have good lungs..or a footpedal, but normally you can draw this or with a mod wheel
I like also to have the volume parameter curve starting from the bottom that it stays under the symbols (like in Cubase), but how get a tempo curve in Synfire ?
It is a endless search for how to get working with this software.

Compare this with Cubase how you work with a tempo and signature track and now in Synfire ?
Basic handling ..why not a permanent tempo track and signature track in Synfire?

I made tempocontainer ( no need to go to  Cubase!).. and try  also to make a singnaturecontainer

 

janamdo's picture
janamdo
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Yes it is no real problem, but better is to have a permanent  signature/ tempo map in Synfire..agree..disagree ?

petearch's picture
petearch
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Well I think the tempo map is permanent as it is just like any other parameter that you can draw (e.g. Volume, Modulation, etc.).  The signature is part of the Scheme parameter which I think needs to be specified inside a container.

Pete

janamdo's picture
janamdo
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I mean with "permanent" that the tempo and signature have fixed tracks like in Cubase, so there is no need for setting up containers for them. 

petearch's picture
petearch
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I think you only need to use a container for the signature.  The tempo track is a permanent track like in Cubase.  Just go to the phrase editor and draw it, the same as you would draw the tempo track in Cubase.  It's the same in Synfire as how you draw other similar parameters, like Expression for example.

And for the signature, just create a new container and change the signature in it to 3/4 or whatever.  You can then re-size it, copy it and move it anywhere you like, it's quite easy. 

Pete

janamdo's picture
janamdo
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Ok , yes tempo is a global parameter and is permanent, but scheme is also global parameter and is permanent present.

By permanent i mean that the containers for both paramteres are already there in Synfire and must be only activated , like the 2 tracks in Cubase for tempo and signature too.

So the tempo track and signature tracks are more userfriendly in Synfire..can they be placed under the rootcontainer ?    

I exported a midi from Cubase with tempo and signature track and imported this in Synfire, but the tempotrack and signature track is not overtaken from Cubase in Synfire by the midi ( not included in de midi file specifications ? )

 

 

petearch's picture
petearch
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In Cubase, make sure the tempo track is activated on the Transport Panel (if it's not activated, I think it says Fixed but I'm at work now so can't check!).  Cubase will then include tempo and signature in the MIDI file.

In Synfire make sure the Tempo Changes box is ticked on the import panel.  I can't remember if there's also a box for signature in Synfire, but I don't think so, so it should do this automatically.

Pete

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janamdo
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Thanks

I will try this out in Cubase and meanwhile i managed to setup manual a tempo and signature track in Synfire
I imported a Cubase midi with a tempo change and a signature chance..both paramters are correct imported by Synfire and for the signature Synfire comes up with some containers , but this went wrong

The time signature is from 4/4 to 2/4 and then back to 4/4 ..so there were 3 signature containers under the master container  necessary, but the last container has not the correct length to the end of the rootcontainer.

This makes that i am not sure if the signature containers now have the right length in the imported midi

Is it not easier to have one tempocontainer for all tracks in Synfire ?--> all tracks must now be loaded with the tempo parameter..a chance in tempo must be made for all tracks individual 

I will enclose the midi and test if the signature container is correct  imported ? ( a fantastic midi !!! )

http://www.sounds-inline.com/templates/scoretemplates/discombobulate_sherlock_holmes_cubase_cpr_file

 

 

juergen's picture
juergen
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Is it not easier to have one tempocontainer for all tracks in Synfire ?

You can do that. You can use for instance the rootcontainer as a "tempocontainer". Just place a tempo parameter for the whole arrangement there.

 

 

janamdo's picture
janamdo
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I am not sure if the fixed option for transport gives the tempotrack ?

In Cubase, make sure the tempo track is activated on the Transport Panel (if it's not activated, I think it says Fixed but I'm at work now so can't check!).  Cubase will then include tempo and signature in the MIDI file.

I imported the midi and cannot ascertain if i used the fixed option yes or no ( it  seems to me that it is not a "fixed tempo"for the imported mid , because it has tempo chances )--> i think you must use the option "tempo track" in Cubase for export the tempochanges in the exported midi from cubase  ( try out the two options )
Cubase has also a extra tempo track export file in xml format,but that is not handy for Synfire as i can do it with a imported midi.

But with this import of the midi i got the tempotrack of the Cubase on the individual tracks of Synfire

As Juergen suggested...use one container for the tempo
So i must find out what is the exact export option for Cubase and how to get the tempo in one container. ( see Juergen )   
note: Cubase has a tempotrack editor..has Synfire also something similair to this ?

 

janamdo's picture
janamdo
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Yes, in Cubase choose option tempo track on transport and tempochances tickbox for import in Synfire, then you get a tempotrack for rootcontainer, the signature is also imported, although it seems in a imported midi not correct the signature containers.
How does the Cubase tempotrack editor works compare with Synfire ? 

kunterbunt's picture
kunterbunt
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I'm trying to figure out what this thread's outcome actually is. For me it seams as if Synfire Pro does have a "master tempo track" similar feature.
Is my understanding correct?
There is only a way to have a tempo parameter for a container, but it cannot be a vector.
At least there is no way to see and edit this vector.

I'm trying to vary the tempo slightly to match specific moments in the melody. They whole orchestrer playing a bit slower and then picking up the tempo again.

janamdo's picture
janamdo
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Last seen 1 week 2 days ago

You can do that. You can use for instance the rootcontainer as a "tempocontainer". Just place a tempo parameter for the whole arrangement there.

In Syfire when you import a midi, all midi tracks are loaded in a root (master) container ( the top container ).
Also when adding by hand  instruments in a arrangementscreen ..you fill the rootcontainer.

For the tempo parameter one can draw a vector for it in arrangement screen.
- choose parameter tempo on parameterblock.
- display selected parameters instead of always showing the figure (toggle).
- construct a vector (line) by hand or wheel.
 

 

 

andre's picture
andre
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The point with Synfire is that tempo and time signature are parameters like other parameters, so they can be bundled with phrases and freely moved around in containers. You can also edit them like all other parameters.

The tempo and signature tracks in Cubase or other DAW are global and static. That is, if you decide to shorten your intro, or move a solo part to a different place, they will no longer match. That's fine for recording left-to-right, but bad for composing and prototyping.

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