Posted
Hi,
I just upgraded to synfire express from HN2 advanced a couple of days ago, and I am having pretty much the same problems as everyone else in this thread. Just some observations so far:
The seperate windows for things I find is a hindrance. Do you think it would be better if windows were tabbed etc? i.e only having the main program window, with things like the audio midi settings gain the full focus if selected, within the one window? If it is a settings window then having it take the full focus would be better.. just my thoughts. I always found HN2 advanced to be quite unproductive having all these windows firing up everywhere.
Is there a trick with VSTi plugins? I am finding they only display once. If I close the instrument window interface, that's it, I've had my shot at tweaking the instrument, and cannot get it to load again. Clicking the button with the name of the instrument after it has been closed just gives me a small window that is black..
[Edit] - figured out some of the Audio Midi settings with instruments and racks, following the Cognitone video tutorial "Setup Global Rack And Global Instruments". Thanks. That video helped a lot.
I am not even wanting to use synfire with my daw at this stage. My idea of synfire's workflow for me is to basically have a small number of VSTi's that cover my bases well, use synfire alone to draft out a song with instruments that cover the various elements of a song, then drop the midi files into my DAW and go to work there.
I hope this doesnt sound critical. I am excited to have upgraded to synfire express, and appreciate it's power and capabilities, but I do feel that it doesn't need to be as steep a learning curve. The videos tutorials I have seen so far are probably a better first point-of-call. I think the manual is probably going to be more useful to me once I know my way around synfire a bit more.
Thanks.
Justin
Wed, 2015-12-30 - 18:22 Permalink
Hi Justin,
Welcome to the user forum!
(I moved your post to a new thread, as the other one was already six months old and quite long to read from the beginning)
I see that a single window design has many advantages.
However, the Audio & MIDI Setup window provides access to the global rack and its settings, which is a file, of which you can save and load as many different instances you want. In fact, it is common to have 1 global rack for multiple arrangements, e.g. for different scenes of a film score.
How would you edit and save a global rack, if it requires you to open an arrangement? It is important to be able to edit the global rack independently of any arrangement. If it was integrated with the arrange window and you had two or more arrangements open (which is very common), you'd have multiple views of the same thing on screen, which is even more confusing (we tried this and abandoned the approach).
Libraries, palettes, sketches ... there are many objects in Synfire that are first degree objects that you can open, edit and save independently of arrangements. They all have their own editor windows. Synfire is not just an editor for arrangements. It's like a workbench to build your own tools, collect your own musical raw material, and then select and use all that in your arrangements.
It may be overwhelming at first, but once you got to grips with this modular system, you will no longer want to miss it.
Is there a trick with VSTi plugins? I am finding they only display once.
The plug-in editor opens and closes with a click on the button on either the rack module, or the instrument inspector.
My idea of synfire's workflow for me is to basically have a small number of VSTi's that cover my bases well, use synfire alone to draft out a song with instruments that cover the various elements of a song, then drop the midi files into my DAW and go to work there.
Good. That's the recommended workflow to start with.
DAW sync works generally fine, but running two audio programs in parallel always adds to the complexity, of which there is plenty already to deal with if you're just starting out.
Wed, 2015-12-30 - 19:16 Permalink
The plug-in editor opens and closes with a click on the button on either the rack module, or the instrument inspector.
Yes, I figured that out, but the problem is that so far, with every instrument I have loaded, closing the interface and then opening it again only ever gives me a small window that is just black. Also I have managed to make a complete mess of my rack, tried the reset option and that just made it worse. I now have a corrupted rack, with elements of both the default or resetted rack, and my own created rack all mixed up together, with red blocks replacing what was my rack instruments / banks.
Two other quick questions: I keep losing audio. In the main arrangement window, I have a VSTi loaded for a part. But now pressing play and there is no sound.
Is there any way to reset window layouts or size? In the Audio and Midi setup window, under inputs, the window (either windowed or full size) no longer shows the buttons at the bottom (the reset and panic buttons) as I was trying to find them to see if that solves my lost audio issue..
These things may have come about as 10 mins ago I got a "pure virtual function" error message. Maybe everything is messed up now because of that?
Sorry if that is too many questions. I am excited by what I know synfire can do as far as a compositional tool. Just finding things are not going too smoothly as yet.
By the way, good points on the logic behind your window setup. I guess I haven't used synfire enough to appreciate the logic you describe, but thanks for the info.
Thanks.
Justin
Wed, 2015-12-30 - 19:53 Permalink
These things may have come about as 10 mins ago I got a "pure virtual function" error message. Maybe everything is messed up now because of that?
Possibly. That "pure virtual function" error is rare but devastating. Haven't heard of it in a while. Is that with a specific plugin only, or any plugin?
But now pressing play and there is no sound.
Either the notes aren't rendered (check if midi keyboard on plugin moves), or they play outside the pitch range of the instrument (if that plugin sound has a limited range).
Since you are on Windows, try setting another audio device for output. Windows Audio is safe. ASIO tends to have issues when multiple programs access it.
In the Audio and Midi setup window, under inputs, the window (either windowed or full size) no longer shows the buttons at the bottom (the reset and panic buttons)
I didn't think this was even possible. If you continue to see heavy issues like these, please open a support case (mail icon on start page). This is difficult to narrow down in a forum discussion.
Wed, 2015-12-30 - 20:15 Permalink
-Is Synfire Express the only audioprogram running on your computer?: if no ..you must shut down that second audio program and make a window restart.
- Are you using 32 or 64 bit Vst plugins ( you must choose for one format, because synfire cannot handle both at the same time ( synfire has a 32 bit and a 64 bit audio engine what can be used )
- Start over again .. start with one rack to make : add a rack .. extract automatic a device description for the choosen addd synth..now the rack has a device description assigned to it ( the rack can now be loaded with sounds on the slots, but start with one slot (mideichannel 1) to get a hang to it.)
- add a instrument track in the arrangement screen and assign the rack with the first sound on midichannel 1( to start with) 1 to it
- now you can play this sound
It all revolves around to make a Rack and load this rack in the arrangement screen with a sound on a instrumenttrack
Wed, 2015-12-30 - 20:15 Permalink
That "pure virtual function" error is rare but devastating. Haven't heard of it in a while. Is that with a specific plugin only, or any plugin?
It may be limited to the plugins I have installed on this machine, at the moment I only installed a bunch from the same company (Air instruments), so it may be that these particular instruments all cause the pure virtual function error. On that, it is most likely plugin related, as I got this error at least 5 times tonight, and even when closing synfire. Will install Kontakt and see if that stops this error.
I was surprised that in searching these forums, the last posts I could find on this error was years ago, given that I got this error a lot tonight.. which makes me think I am using the program in a way that is not common, perhaps? I am using the 64 bit audio engine, how does everyone else set up synfire to play sounds back? Just using a GM midi bank?
Either the notes aren't rendered (check if midi keyboard on plugin moves), or they play outside the pitch range of the instrument (if that plugin sound has a limited range).
The thing is that the same figure / phrases / notes were making sound, then all of a sudden stopped making any sound when pressing play in the arranger.
If you continue to see heavy issues like these, please open a support case (mail icon on start page).
Will do Andre, thanks for your help here...
Wed, 2015-12-30 - 20:21 Permalink
Is Synfire Express the only audioprogram running on your computer?
Studio One Pro 3 is installed, but I haven't had it running alongside synfire.. Apart from that, a midi loopback device, but no audio programs that use either asio or the windows audio drivers..
Are you using 32 or 64 bit Vst plugins
64 bit only. I convert any 32 bit to 64 bit using jbridge, though I have no jbridge converted plugins at the moment in my scan paths.
Thanks for your time, janamdo. I had no worries creating an instrument rack. Just after numerous pure virtual function call errors, I seem to have no end of problems..
Thanks.
Justin
Wed, 2015-12-30 - 21:17 Permalink
how does everyone else set up synfire to play sounds back? Just using a GM midi bank?
plugins of all sorts are being used and proven: NI, EWQL, VSL, AAS, iZotope, UVI, ... the GM synth is only a fallback. jbridge may cause trouble, possibly.
Thu, 2015-12-31 - 04:05 Permalink
So if I understand correctly, I have to direct it to either to my 32 bit plug-ins folders or my 64 bit plug-ins folder but not both?
It keeps telling me the plug-inscanner has stopped working. Meanwhile, the scanner continues to plug away in the background. There are a lot of errors in the load. This may be partly a problem with my plug-ins. They got all messed up when I reloaded this computer with Windows 7. Mostly it's the free vsts not the good ones that come with installers that appear ton be causing problems.
Thanks
Lizzie
Thu, 2015-12-31 - 11:02 Permalink
So if I understand correctly, I have to direct it to either to my 32 bit plug-ins folders or my 64 bit plug-ins folder but not both?
If you want to use mostly 64bit plugins, or have mostly 64bit ones, just point the scanner to your 64bit plugin folder, and choose the option in Synfire to prefer the 64bit engine.. For me I setup a 32bit plugin folder and called it VstPlugins32bit_Unused, when I get installers that have both 32 and 64 bit and don't allow me to exclude the 32bit install. That way I can exclude this 32bit folder from my paths.. Most plugin manufacturers have moved to 64bit versions, so I'd just stick to 64bit if you can, unless you have a plugin that you really want to use that is still only 32bit. And as for jbridge plugins, I haven't had a need to use jbridged 64bit versions for several years now..
Thu, 2015-12-31 - 14:57 Permalink
There's a 32 bit scanner and a 64 bit scanner. Both run their scans independently, so you can set different paths for each.
As 64 bit is becoming the norm, Cognitone might also move to 64 bit as a default setting and offer 32 bit as an option.
If the scanner crashes, only the process that scanned the last plugin has crashed. The scanner application that spawned it will notice that it doesn't return a result, kill it and continue - just wait a minute or so.
Thu, 2015-12-31 - 15:44 Permalink
Hi again,
this is a real noob question, but how do I change the key? I have a song that already has a chord progression, I want to create a progression based on the chords I have already written, but in synfire express, under the progression tab, the "key" button is greyed out, the field is set to "C.Major" and is not editable, following along with the tutorial videos shows the ability to bring up a menu to change the key via the "Estimate" button, but none of these work at all for me.
[Edit].. Nevermind, I found by entering a new chord (not the default ones showing), that everything opened up.. ..was a little counter-intuitive until I entered a new chord, then everything started functioning.
Actually I have another quick question: there is a metronome, right? I have a metronome setup in my instrument rack, is all working properly (via the probe), I have the metronome enabled in settings, but how do I get the metronome to play when, for example I am playing through a chord progression? Is there a setting or button somewhere to turn it on?
I am guessing that metronome only works for recording, not playback? Have just searched through the manual and found nothing other than that which I already know.
Thu, 2015-12-31 - 15:57 Permalink
Changing the key most often just means transposing the chord progression: Select all chords and use the clickboard's arrow buttons to transpose.
Changing from Major to parallel Minor, or close related keys is even easier: Select all chords and use the Estimate button to select the desired key.
This does NOT change the chords, though. Only their function (or: the functional meaning you want them to have in a larger context).
Metronome is for recording only. If you need one for playback, there's only a workaround currently: draw those 4 or 6 notes and loop them.
Thu, 2015-12-31 - 16:58 Permalink
Ok thanks Andre, that's good info, cheers.
I realise I am asking a lot of questions, but I am finding this is really helpful to get me up to speed, and hopefully is of use to others who might read this..
I do have another question: I have been setting up an arrangement of a song I already wrote, just to learn synfire, and I have the chorus chord progression worked out. I have been trying to manually add notes (or figures) in another part in the arranger for the melody line, and what I am finding is that I have to change the chords in the progression just to enable some notes. E.g I have a G chord for several bars, but on the first beat of the second bar of G, the melody line has a 6th note of the G major scale (in this case, 'E'), but in order to get an E note, I have to change the chord progression to a G6 for that part. I understand that if I was playing this song solo, then it would be useful to know to play a G6 here, but I actually want the accompaniment to play a G, not a G6. Likewise, when the song changes to a C chord later, at one point the melody needs to play a B note, but the only way to open up access to a B note here is to change the progression at this point to a Cmaj7 which then allows me access to a B note, but again if I had another instrument (say a pad sound) playing, I have it written for it to simply play a C chord here. I don't really want the accompaniment instruments to rigidly follow all the voicing changes that the melodic instrument is making..
Is there a way in the arranger to free up notes in a scale to not be limited to only those notes in the chord voicings?
Thanks.
Justin
[Edit] - by the way, I rebuilt my rack using other virtual instrument plugins, and the black windows problem I had seemed to be related to the plugins I was using before. Now I can access the plugin interface anytime no problems. Also, I suspect the "pure virtual function call" error I got a lot yesterday was plugin related as well, as I have had no such error today at all with the new rack/plugins I setup, so I suspect that this error was plugin-related.
Thu, 2015-12-31 - 18:34 Permalink
It's alright, I figured it out - I can select a note / figure and choose "Bypass VL" and that removes the voice leading constraints..
Am curious to see if by doing this (Bypassing VL) this causes issues if I then go and change the progression / and or key..
I'm probably asking too many questions too early, but this whole thing has me confused now as to how it works..
Choosing "Bypass VL" did the trick, but then when I had a C chord move to a D chord, the melody at the end of the C leading into the D calls for a D note tie or D note hit twice, and for some reason, now synfire lets me put a D note over the C chord? Why? All of a sudden I am not restricted, and don't need to Bypass VL in order to get notes outside of those in the chord voicings..
I'm lost as to why..
Fri, 2016-01-01 - 02:48 Permalink
Thanks. My plugins are mostly separated by 32 and 64 bit, so it isn't a problem to send it one way or the other and most come in both forms.
I think the 64 bit is better only because it will use all 16 GBs of RAM that I have, whereas the 32 bit are limited to less than 4 GBs, if I understand it correctly. I know I crash less on the 64 bit programs.
It's good to know the crashing of one plugin won't crash the whole program. I recently reloaded my computer and I think some of the plugins are not installed correctly - I've been getting error messages my DAWs also. I may just have to start over.