SFP + DAW latency

In order to play all instruments in perfect sync, they need to be run on the same host (either Engine or inside Drones in your DAW).

If you are hosting some instruments on a DAW (drones) and others on the Engine, they will not play in sync. Also playing instruments via loopback MIDI will give a bad timing, because this data can not be sent to the DAW ahead of time.

There may be a delay between graphics playhead display in Synfire and the actual sound. This is a cosmetic issue only, because the music is synchronized within itself. It's just screen display that may lag behind.

In audio& Midi setup screen ..Ports tab.. Hosts: node egine --> rightclick : audio engine settings  : asio device type --> show device control panel ... latency in ms ?

O ..i remember my setup with the asio multi driver from Cubase for asio drivers.

I set the "client driver" option in Synfire and DAW and choose the asio driver in asiomulti setup
This works good with only AUDIO  in your DAW for windows .. try this one.

Logic Pro and all DAWs (I would assume)  have the ability to adjust the timeing out of midi clock (+/-)  Also tracks may individually have the ability to move forward/later to make up for using different VI's and especially MIDI hardware. 

If the Gifthorse is smiling at you, don't poke a stick at it!    :-)

If all the VIs are on SFP, and there is only audio on DAW, is the expectation that there will be latency?

Yes.

If you want the audio tracks in the DAW be in sync with your music, you also need to host all VSTi there (using drones). Everything that makes sound needs to run by the same sample clock.

Synfire's use of Rewire is very rudimentary and cannot take advantage of many Rewire features.

First, it can only be a master, so all other rewire capable programs most run as slaves.

Because there is a necessary time involved in prototyping, playing Synfire is not the same as just playing midi.

In effect, all Rewire with Synfire can do is cause the playback of Synfire and the DAW to start in sync and run in sync. It cannot loop or rewind the slave program.

It is primarily useful to play what is producted in Synfire in synch with audio running in your DAW.

I was never fond of the latency or kludginess of rewire. I gave up using it with Logic Pro a long time ago. 

You could harmonize a voice with Synfire

It is primarily useful to play what is producted in Synfire in synch with audio running in your DAW.

By  playingin sync with Synfire and the DAW you could construct a fitting melodyline out of the DAW voice
Using this melody line for harmonising further, means that the voice in your DAW sounds good witht the chords 

But still it is very small.

Synfire attempts to keep the latency low even if sounds are hosted by different programs. This works ok most of the time. Sometimes it does not. The only way to get reliable results is to host all sounds and audio on the same program.

How does Rewire work then? It coordinates between many sound modules in other programs, so why does SFP+DAW not sync like other Rewire projects.

Rewire does transmit transport commands like tempo, positioning, start, stop only. It does not transmit audio here.

One of the primary functions for me would be that SFP was capable of syncing with DAW and audio to the millesecond. either that or make SFP cable of hosting a stereo track of audio. If you have people singing great lines, one of the functions of SFP would be to complement them.. One could Melodyne to get the midi notes, but that is a poor substitue to hearing SFP complement some real singing. 

One of the primary functions for me would be that SFP was capable of syncing with DAW and audio to the millesecond.

It does so, if you use the Drones and the Transport. That is what these were made for.

Drones don't work with midi hardware in Logic.. That was my understanding.

Dpart,
I don't know if you have to have that mess to record midi due to your choice of daw or something in your setup. To me it seems like you aren't using a rewire transport to sync synfire and your daw.
I use ableton and the its built in instruments aren't vsts so can't be hosted in a drone. I use midi drones then route the midi track to a different track that hosts the instrument. Before this I also used virtual midi cables. Btw synfire pro comes with loopbe a virtual midi system for windows.
When recording midi I just arm the tracks in the daw, press record in the daw the play in synfire. The rewire transport automatically starts the daw recording and keeps it in sync. These days I tend to use the drags the midi from the drone.

Mark I know you're comfortable with your setup with any years experience to your daw of choice but that workflow driven by the daws limitation of midi would drive me mad.
I would be tempted to use the engine more or pipe midi directly out of synfire to your hardware for as long as possible in the song writing process and push cognitone to improve the editor functionality towards wen you are used to in logic. Also ave you thought of exporting to lillipond and looking at the score to try get an overview of what's going on? The constant exports and imports are bound to cause issues, not least as synfire tries to deduce the musical meaning on every import and isn't as good as you at knowing what you wanted.

push cognitone to improve the editor 

Yes, please everyone, do so. I am eager to improve the editor and structure overview. Spending time for tayloring Synfire to individual multi-program workflows has not a priority currently. Since everyone has their own favorite set of tools and procedures, this would also be a very difficult goal to meet.

The basic import and export is required to "just work", yes, but more sophisticated techniques need to be addressed at a later time. Import and export work best during the initial and the final stages of composition. And for libraries and phrases, of course. 

Also - just discovered this, although record of the MIDI is unavailable in DAW, I find that I can hit record in the DAW WHILE SFP IS PLAYING IN SYNC WITH THE DAW, and VOILA I have MIDI being recorded on the above mentioned MIDI tracks each as it should be. Yes you miss a second or two of MIDI streaming in because this is a manual click but I think (a) one could just put in a bogus lead-in bar or two in SFP track to allow the desired MIDI stream to start from SFP or (b) I can probably set up my DAW to automatically record at ANY MIDI input - way preferable.

 

(https://users.cognitone.com/content/windowsossynfire-cubasenano2-keyboa…)

I reached the same conclusion. See my post in the above thread on using Cubase and SFE.

Recording in Logic is not an issue.   The whole situation with the two apps, feels like I'm juggling powersaws, and I'm going to miss one.. Of course all that really happens is something locks up. Does rewire care about 32 or 64 bit Logic..

I find Logic crashes a lot less in 64 bit mode,  but the 32 bridge is flakely with some plugins. They crash Logic or just don't work at all.  

LIlypond leaves much to be desired.  I write and edit directly in Logic's Score editor, which is klugy to learn, but very powerful once you're used to it.. I can fit up to 16 tracks orchestral score layout.. Seeing the notes for each instrument is TREMENDOUSLY helpful..  90% of the data going to the brain, comes from vision, it makes sense to make as much use out of visual cues as possible. 

Apple is reknown for making things impossible for competitors,  Creating AU's. Refusal to deal properly with Flash.  They sometimes change the the operating code without notifiying 3rd parties.  Hence the game of catchup....  I used to try to run Reason with Logic, cause it had some great synths in it. but it was always iffy...

I've never been fond of Rewire, although it works, there's a latency. Sometimes you stop one application the other get's lost.  Although I must admit I have not used it for a number of years, maybe improvements have been made.. I will try that out. 

I've just got so used to using this set-up.. I should stop making music for a day and take time to do some more experiments..  I'm probably overlooking something.

Thanx for the post...

I just have to say that I experience no problems with sync using drones in Live 8 on osx. All is super tight here.

Unfortunately Drones don't work on MIDI hardware in Logic, only virtual instruments...  Like they say in Maine, "Well you can't get there from here"

I'm gonna sit down and try to see if I can create a link in Logic's environment from a virtual instrument to MIDI hardware.

I used to be on Logic for years, and the environment is probably the way to route the drone output to your gear.
I don't regret going to Ableton, routing audio & midi is so much easier.
I don't have Logic installed anymore, version 7 was my last version, and doesn't work on intel... otherwise I could maybe help getting an environment to route the midi.
Maybe look around on the net for some midi-routing environments ?

Like they say in Maine, "Well you can't get there from here"

Sorry, Mark ... but I am from Maine and we say: 'Khain 'ot gat theyah, from hea-ah.'

(I don't think I can explain this to non-American forum members) :hello:

open logic pro x 10.3, open synfire pro..... sync in sinfire... as read in the tutorial, press play in synfire and logic are in delay of about 1/8 of misure.. i try all things.. but... remain the delay ... aby solutions? thks gas

you need to load all your plugins into drones. only that will ensure 100% sync.